Another idea: some companies like Disney hire from within so if you work even at taking tickets, you can then apply for something bigger like IT.
Please please please give me any advice on how to secure my first *real* full-time job post-college.
At the sister company of the one I worked at, there was a guy who was working as a cargo agent (even though he had an advanced degree) just to get into the company. He would pass along ideas of how to improve efficiency and was pulled up by the GM to head a business division project he’d be planning. It’s a cliche, but true hard work and brilliance is sometimes rewarded.
Contact a recruiter & meet with them asap. They will give you candid feedback on your resume, your appearance, your interview skills etc.
And they only get paid when you get a job, so they are highly motivated to help you.
Also network, network, network.
Do companies even use “temps” anymore? I used to temp a lot when I was in college 20 years ago. Mostly it involved low skilled jobs like data entry or filing paperwork. I would have assumed most of that is handled by technology now.
Hiring contractors and freelancers is very popular these days, but they tend to be skilled workers with experience (developers, project managers, what have you). Even much of the work performed by large consulting firms has become more “staff augmentation”, rather than hiring an expert to solve some business problem.
You can apply, but unless you are also getting a masters in computer science or something, a company like Disney is not going to put you in a role in their IT department just because you ran Space Mountain for a couple years.
Although, to your point, I have a couple friends who never finished college who worked their way up to senior management roles by starting off as contractors or low-level employees. But I still think it’s a challenge to “work your way up from the mailroom” since most large companies have created different promotion tracks for their “real” jobs and much of the “mailroom” jobs are outsourced to companies that specialize in that stuff.
Mmm…not really. They might give you some help, but recruiters typically get paid by the hiring company. They get motivated to place anyone, not “you”.
According to this article, staffing companies was a nearly $84 billion dollar a year industry in 2017. https://www2.staffingindustry.com/site/Editorial/Daily-News/2018-list-of-largest-US-staffing-firms-143-with-revenue-of-over-100-million-46896?
The agencies I’ve worked for focus primarily on white collar jobs and place everyone from clerks to mid level executives. Some offer blue-collar work, but that’s usually handled by other specialized agencies. And despite what people may think, the amount of actual paperwork generated is still huge, especially in accounting and HR where a physical paper trail must be maintained (some like employee records, for the life of the company).
As I stated above, liability is a big factor in using temps. It isn’t seen at the individual employee level, but terminating someone, even with “at will” employment isn’t as easy as someone just deciding they don’t want you there anymore. Termination because of racial discrimination and harassment are the big two things someone may sue about. With a temp, the client can, especially during the first few days which is usually a trial period, end the assignment with minimal explanation to the agency and none to the temp. Same with a direct hire placement. And contractors can sue for breach of contract unless the break with the company is clear, clean and adheres to the terms of the contract.
There’s also the costs for a company to recruit and hire on their own especially now with unemployment as low as it is. It can take months to find someone directly, requiring numerous interviews and background checks. Versus possibly a few days via an agency.
As for recruiters, the companies I’ve worked for also offer direct placement. A negotiated amount is paid by the client by for the placement and it’s in the best interest of the agency to make sure the person they place is truly everything they say he/she is or they won’t stay in business long. They also do background checks, including criminal if necessary for the position. Oddly, I just realized recently, they don’t do drug testing, pre-placement or random
Are temp/placement agencies for everyone? Of course not, but they’re a tool for those looking for a new job. A lot of posters (including me) emphasize the importance of networking, but how do you network if your primary contacts are your peers also fresh out of college or your co-workers are fellow entry level employees. I’ve worked for companies where the only administrative person they’ve met is the HR person who did their paperwork.
More about networking. How many family members or friends would/have you recommended for a job, much less they actually got that job. There’s one person I know whom I would recommend and endorse for a job (which I did enthusiastically to two different callers for the same position) and that would only be if I truly felt she would fit that position really well, knowing her personality and work habits. On a professional level, most companies prohibit former managers and co-workers from providing any more info than your having worked there, title and dates you worked.
So this thread and my journey here are still ongoing. Reviving it now just because I have an interview coming up in a few weeks, this time for a state agency. I know we have a few state/federal employees on the Dope, so does anybody have any interview advice that aligns with those positions? Interestingly, I am required to bring in copies of my college transcripts and a reference list, so maybe that points to the agency being serious about hiring me?
This’ll be my first interview in at least 6 months, just because I haven’t really tried putting any feelers out beyond state positions since I got full-time at the current job. I am still kind of in shock that I actually got an interview just because I know how difficult it is to get state jobs; that says to me that even though this entire years-long ordeal has been a slog, it really isn’t a problem with my qualifications so much as it is with general job market competition and presumably weak interviewing skills.
Research the agency. What do they do? What laws and administrative codes created them and control the direction of the work. What/who are they supporting? Who are their “customers”. How are they funded? What is the hierarchy, do they have regions or areas they support?
Basing my answer strictly on NYS, which is where my experience is, asking for transcript and references as part of process is pretty routine. I think there tend to be fewer phantom position with government hiring than private, but the process can be extended.
As for interviewing tips I read through and saw lots of good suggestions in this thread but I’m not clear what you have already implemented in adjusting your interviewing technique.
I’m a city employee, but all agencies/municipalities have some similarities. One is that you’ll often be initially interviewed in order to get on a list of qualified people that can be hired in a job category, from which multiple departments or sections can then hire. The specific department will then interview people from the list for one or more specific jobs. The lists are usually good for a year. And sometimes there’s an internal person that they want to transfer in, but they’re legally required to do a full and fully documented recruitment. The more departments that hire people in that job category, the more likely you’ll be hired.
Oh, and the first interview will almost always be done by an interview panel, rather than a single person. Secondary interviews are also likely to be done by multiple people, but the group is usually smaller, and it’s more likely that it’ll include people you’d be working for or with if you got the job.
Good luck.
I am a state employee. Our interview process is very proscribed and stilted, which can be both a good thing and a bad thing.
They are good in that everyone interviewing for a position is asked the same questions. Every candidate is given a few minutes at the beginning of the interview to look over the interview questions and take notes. The hiring panel members are required to take notes of each candidate’s answers. These notes are kept on record so that the evaluation process can be scrutinized by HR, if the need should arise. Candidates who hit all the key words and phrases are the ones who get rated the highest. If you say something stupid out of nervousness or scatter-brainness, it’s no biggie as long as you eventually say the right thing. At least, that’s how it is supposed to work. I’m sure if you broke out into Gilbert and Sullivan while answering a question, that wouldn’t make a good impression. 
The downside is that you don’t get any points for charm, wit, cuteness, and other intangibles. Also, people who tend to give succinct answers are disadvantaged because they are more likely to not say all the key words/phrases. The panel is not allowed to give prompts. So if you’ve been asked a two-part question and you only address the first part, don’t expect anyone to help you out. However, you are always given a chance at the end of the interview to go back to a question and add to your original response. I would recommend using this option if nervousness robbed you of eloquence towards the begining of the interview.
My biggest piece of advice (as someone who has sat through a few of these): Take. Your. Time. Use the entire five minutes (or whatever) they give you to read through the questions and read them carefully. When they ask you a question, take a deep breath and compose your thoughts. Close your eyes if you have to. Doing these things may make you look weird, but remember they can’t be used against you. Nervousness is the enemy and will make you stupid, so you’ve got to keep it under control.
For state positions, you’ll want to familiarize yourself with the applicable federal and state laws (they are equally important). Don’t bother memorizing the minutia (like section numbers), but you’ll want to let whomever is interviewing know that you understand (and thus respect) the regulatory framework. Be prepared for a “what if?” scenario involving angry citizens. “An angry citizen contacts you about X and is threatening to go to the press. How do you respond?” The question will be worded such that they you can answer in a number of ways and not be “wrong”, but they are looking for a candidate who covers as many bases as possible. So for a question like this one, you will want to say something like, “If the angry citizen calls me on the phone, I would do X. If they email me, I would do Y. If they contact the agency on its Twitter feed or Facebook page, I would do Z.” X, Y, and Z might be the same response (I don’t know, not being a communications person), but it doesn’t matter. You will want to show the panel that you are prepared for angry citizens on every front and that you are adept with multiple forms of media.
I’m not sure restrictions on references have much to do with networking. And they only apply while you are working for a company - after I retired I did references for a couple of people at my old job.
I got my last job because my neighbor knew an HR guy who was working for a manager who was looking for someone just like me. My resume and professional reputation helped also, but it got my foot in the door. I’ve gotten some people jobs also. Including one Doper from a long time ago.
Sure, if you are an incompetent idiot with bad manners and hygiene, networking isn’t going to work. It works because hiring managers, faced with a sea of nearly identical resumes, prefer one where a person they trust can recommend a person. If that person turns out to be a loser, she won’t listen to that person again.
I hired most of my interns based on references from professor friends of mine.
In my experience, this is more likely to be from no on in HR getting around to removing a listing, even when the opening is legitimate.
At one point a lot of openings were required when trying to get someone a visa. You could tell them, because they included a requirement for an odd natural language that no one in the industry uses and because it said things like 4.5 years of experience in application X. However, if you got a resume filling those requirements, it seems you had to at least interview the candidate. I know someone who got hired when applying for a job like this. But he was pretty good.
That was a while ago - I think the laws and procedures have changed since.
Great advice. Thank you for sharing this.
That’s not really how networking works. On an informal level, there is nothing stopping people from talking about whether they liked working with you or would recommend you for a position. Doesn’t have to be family and friends either. I’ve networked my way into jobs simply by meeting people at trade shows, conferences or Meetups.
They don’t need x applicants. Some companies are required to post every job opening, even if it is being filled internally.
There are a ton of other reasons why a lot of job openings are bullshit:
-As mentioned, they might be outdated and no one bothered to take them off the job board.
-The company is hiring for a project or client that isn’t finalized yet.
-Some companies are just always interviewing people for particular roles.
We usually survey the attendees at our conference, and ask what were the most important reasons they attended. Networking usually comes out first, ahead of the technical papers.
All the interesting stuff doesn’t go on in the meeting rooms, but in the hallways outside the meeting rooms.
I interviewed once for a job that they didn’t have the funding approved for. Their request was in, it just wasn’t approved yet.
I once got interviewed by 2 different firms, and scheduled for a third. hey were all trying to find someone with computer systems design experience, especially relevant experience in a specific area (which i had). They were all very interested, but rather cagy about just when the project would start, etc.
From contacts in the field, it soon became clear that there was a large government contract for this project, and all these firms had bid on the contract. So now they were trying to find experienced staff for it, in hopes that they would win the bid If they didn’t win, there would be no such job.
So sometimes companies interview for jobs that don’t exist yet.
This.
I’ve done interviews several times, and after sitting in a room all day, asking the same questions over and over, you notice that the answers are all about the same. When you’re reviewing the candidates later, everything blurs together. A little anecdote that relates to the question not only helps sell yourself, but makes you memorable. I remember one question along the lines of how did you solve a difficult problem, and everyone but one answered with something about work. One candidate told a story about suing someone in small claims court. They described the situation, how they prepared, and how they handled themselves in court. Neither my associate or I had ever dealt with small claims court before, and we found it fascinating. At the end of the interviews I couldn’t have told you what any other candidate had said, but we remembered her and her answer.
Don’t go over two minutes. You risk losing the point of your story.
If you don’t know the answer to a question, don’t try to bullshit an answer. Say you don’t know, and then continue with how you would go about finding out the answer. You’re fresh out of college, we know you don’t know everything and don’t have the experience, but we want to know how well you can think.
Continuing my previous answer, I was taught your stories shouldn’t go longer than 30 seconds, maybe a minute tops. You want to get to the point quickly, get the points across, and not drift off topic. Shorter stories are easier to remember, too.
Practice, practice, practice. As suggested, have friends stage mock interviews with you. It’s much better than doing it solo as you know what’s coming, whereas if someone else is asking questions it throws you off a bit, which is good practice to have.
This. A friend was interviewing for a promotional spot and was asked a question. She answered well, but the interviewers didn’t take any notes on her answer. She wondered why for a moment, then realized they wanted certain buzzwords. She expanded the answer with the key buzzwords, and they were all scribbling like mad, even though it was the same damn answer.
I was never like that when interviewing, but you don’t know what you may encounter.