Today, for me, it’s NIN’s “Closer.” I always assumed that everyone had that; it never occured to me to think otherwise. Do you have the whole song going through your head, or just a couple of measures?
Crafter Man I agree with you on one point, AD/HD is NOT a disease. Of that I am 100% sure of. That does not mean it’s not real, and it doesn’t mean it doesn’t effect peoples lives. In many ways we (as humans) need people with AD/HD trait for our advancements, but those very advancments are making it increasingly harder for many people w/ AD/HD trait to fit in.
I was diagnosed with ADD or ADHD (depending on which one of the quack opinions you listened to,) back in the early 80’s. I still exhibit a lot of the symptoms listed in this discussion. Despite that, an expert to me in college that I had been “wildly and repeatedly misdiagnosed.” She assured me that if I were actually suffering from ADHD, I never would have made it to college. IMO she was changing the diagnosis to fit the results she saw - back in the day, she would have agreed with all the quacks.
Whatever. In general, I agree with you, Crafter_Man. I spent a lot of time in support groups with other ADHD kids, and read a lot on the condition, and it seemed pretty clear to me there was nothing really wrong with any of us. Sure, we all needed a bit more discipline, a bit more attention, and probably a bit more exercise. And for various reasons, none of the adults in our lives (including teachers) were willing to give us the time required. You can call that “bad parenting” if you like, but “bad circumstances” is probably more accurate.
Since then, I’ve had experiences with kids who really have ADHD. They are very similar to me, but much more extreme - they really take a lot of energy to share space with. In the case of those kids it’s a whole different story.
For the OP - What I’ve found, and observed, is that these kids do really well in a disciplined environment with very clear rules and consequences. This does NOT mean these kids need to be spanked more. It does mean that they are much more likely to be successful if they have routines and rules spelled out very clearly for them. ADHD kids frequently do very well in the military, because everything is very strictly regimented. When the kids master the military discipline and then apply it to other parts of their lives, they do great.
My childhood was very structured and I was disciplined properly, thank you very much. That didn’t matter though when I got to school and couldn’t sit still, or when I’d pace the floors, interrupt my teachers and fidget constantly.
Video games-Crafter Man, apparently you’ve never bothered to educate yourself or you’d find that those of us with ADHD also will hyper-focus on things, to the exclusion of everything else. And it’s not just things we LIKE-sometimes I’d get so concerned with something that it would take me two hours to write an opening paragraph, because it had to be EXACT.
I really wish people who don’t “believe in” ADHD would stay out of these kinds of threads.
Like it or not, Guinastasia, the fact of the matter is, a LOT of kids diagnosed and medicated for ADHD simply don’t have ADHD. As long as kids continue to be misdiagnosed, and as long as awful teachers and other quacks continue to use the ADHD label as a way to get troublesome kids out of their hair, there will be a lot of folks who believe that ADHD doesn’t exist. And as much as it drives you nuts, these people will have good reasons for believing this is the case.
Telling these people to be silent or asking them to stay out of threads won’t do anything to change their minds. Nor will it make their discussion points any less valid.
Sorry you had such a tough time in school.
Just wanted to echo this. I’ve got what I think is called “Jump Blues” in my head - from a blues guitarist I work with occasionally.
I wish I could turn the thing off sometimes, or at least change the channel. I’ve been in really emotional situations, times when I should be bawling or angry, and some stupid song will really start catching my attention.
Is this an ADHD thing… ?
To Crafter_Man, I’d be happy to elaborate on some aspects of my life that could convince you AD/HD does exist, if you would detail a few of your perceptions.
Video games, for example, can be highly immersive and stimulating - and that will help to calm down the mind of a person like me. Actually, I’m most relaxed in panic situations, like tests - they are the only times when the situation demands and utilizes all of that concentration.
Note that this can really help a person along, personally an professionally. People come to me to put out fires, and multitasking can be stress-relieving to me.
Wow, thank you all for you opinions and experiences.
My OP wasn’t exactly clear, as my thoughts haven’t been exactly clear lately. I’ll give a few more details about our situation.
H has other family issues that we thought were contributing to her situation. Her “problems” really started when she was about 3-1/2 or 4 years old. She was kicked out of 3 day cares and had a struggle nearly every day in the one that she ended up staying in until first grade. Primarily, she had problems with getting distracted easily.
We didn’t think that was too much of an issue since she was so young.
She entered first grade after the birthday cutoff date. She is extremely bright and thought that holding her back would add to the distraction factor. Her first-grade teacher was big on pushing her to the doctor. We finally did take her to her pediatrician, who prescribed Straterra after going through a brief battery of tests. We tried giving her the Strattera, but she was completely unable to swallow the pills. We decided to try other things, like the reward/punishment systems that we came up with. Second grade, we placed her in another school. that was closer to our home. She had a teacher who said that she was rambunctious and distracted, but she didn’t seem to show any behaviors that were beyond her control. Now, in third grade, she has 2 teachers who specialized in special ed/gifted students. One teacher says that she is the most severe case of ADHD she has seen in her 20 years of teaching.
Now, I don’t know what to believe. I know that she is talkative. I know that she is a master manipulator who craves attention like no one I’ve ever met. I know she is bright beyond her eight years. I know that she gets distracted easily. I know that if I keep on her, she can stay on task.
After talking things over with her father, and before having the big meeting with her teachers, we were seriously considering placing her in a charter school that specializes in ADHD kids.
I would really rather not have her on medication if it can be avoided. That’s due to my mistrust of the FDA and these drugs not having been around long enough to really know how they affect kids’ bodies. If she truly needs medication, then that’s the route we’ll take. Do we trust the pediatrician whose specialties lie in treating physical illnesses? Do we trust a psychiatrist whose interests may be keeping her drugged & constantly in therapy so he makes money?
I can understand Crafter_Man’s POV. I was there as well.
I really appreciate everyone’s input, though. Thank you.
This is one of my biggest fears and why we are so apprehensive to put her on medication.
I can understand your hesitation when it comes to medication. But do please keep these things in mind: the medications used to treat ADHD are stimulants, and if your child does have ADHD, she will react to them differently than a child who does not have ADHD. Sometimes, the meds can be used to confirm a diagnosis. If she has a “non-ADHD” reaction, no one will advise keeping her on the meds - they will make her MORE hyper. As someone who has been medicated and who has had therapy, I would stress that both are important - neither alone is enough. BUT - I was able to stop the meds after three years of therapy. I notice a significant difference in my ability to concentrate without the meds, but the therapy helped me learn alternate ways of coping.
Incidentally, you describe this little girl as being manipulative and attention-hungry. You should know that these behaviors, along with lying, deliberate sloppiness, argumentiveness and excuse-making, are often hallmarks of the disorder. We can’t fix what everyone thinks is wrong with us, so we “teach” ourselves ways to cope, and often the coping mechanisms are inappropriate. This is where therapy comes in.
Good luck to you all!
You know, I could kick myself lately with all of this hindsight being 20/20 adn all that. I actually had never thought of that, but having read it, it makes sense.
A little more background, without going into too much detail:
Her mother essentially abandoned her at the age of two, to run off and do drugs. Her father, his parents, and her maternal grandmother have all been involved in her upbringing. I came into the picture when she was three years old. She has been treated with kid gloves for her “speacial situation.” A lot of her behaviors we attributed to the way her grandparents have treated her.
It’s so hard to put all of this into written words. I also don’t want to make it sound like she’s a terrible child because she’s not. If she could somehow harness all of that energy, she’d probably take over the world.
I could also kick myself for my spelling mistakes.
:smack:
Apologies.
Once again, feel free to e-mail me. As hard as it is for you, I can assure you that it’s frustrating and difficult for her, too. When I was diagnosed at the age of 30, I was near-suicidal; SOMETHING was wrong with me, and I’d run out of ways to deal with it. When I learned that what was wrong could be TREATED, I literally fell onto the floor of the doctor’s office in tears of relief.
Even now, ten years later, there’s a big part of me that’s still angry it took so long to figure out. I imagine what I could have been. I’m not unhappy with my life, but ADHD stole a huge chunk of my personal potential.
You need doctors you can trust. We went through a few before I settled on the developmental paed we now see. I trust him and it’s teamwork when we are sorting out meds for my kids. I’ve never felt he is prescribing meds to keep himself employed. Misdiagnosis does happen. That’s why you need a good hcp to do the evaluations. We eventually took M to a neuropsychologist and that was very enlightening and useful. Also expensive.
There’s options if she still has problems with taking pills. For a while we had dex compounded into liquid form for example. I don’t think any sane parent would have a kid on meds if they could avoid it but the difference in quality of life for my guys is extreme. If you’re in constant internal chaos, then it’s very hard for a parent to impose effective order from outside.
About meds: I totally understand the hesitation. I was a pretty desperate parent to resort to trying them for my son. But he was suffering so much as a result of ADHD that I felt I had to do it. I’ve heard about other children on meds for ADHD who avoid their medication like the plague, but my son never resists. He understands that his medication makes him feel better, so getting him to take it is never a problem. His reaction makes me feel better about having to give it to him.
Again, please don’t read this as a blanket statement in favor of meds. Just know that they are a legitimate option. There are lots of horror stories out there about meds, but there are plenty of success stories, too. You’ve got to do what’s best for your child. YMMV.
This is an interesting comment, although I can’t say that I agree. At least right now, ADHD is a disease as the medical community defines it. Of course, you can’t die from it (although it can cause impulsive behavior that leads to accidents), it won’t make you run a fever, and you won’t feel or look sick. The traits that go along with ADHD–hyperactivity, impulsivity, inattention–can be very beneficial in some circumstances. People with ADHD have different levels of activity in parts of their brains (sorry, this is in uber-layman’s terms). So, does that mean they have a disease? I guess that all depends upon your point of view. ADHD sufferers think differently and react in ways that society does not approve of. Children (and most adults, depending upon their jobs) are required to sit quietly in structured environments and stay on task. People with ADHD can’t. However, many people with ADHD are imaginative, bright, and are great “idea” people. Maybe in some utopian future these people will be empowered by their differences in ways I can’t imagine. But that’s simply not how the world is today. We all have to conform to some degree.
People who struggle with ADHD are also at increased risk of a variety of other conditions, depression probably chief among them.
Not all ADD meds are stimulants. Also not having a good effect w/ a particular med does not rule out ADD.
The way I understand ADD, is that a person w/ this trait needs, craves a certain level of stimulation. If they don’t have it (such as in school) they will seek it, or even create it. If they have that level, such as in a video game, they will do anything to stay there.
I actually think we all have this level, but someone w/ ADD has it set at a higher level. When they do get the level they require they must hold on to it. Other non-ADD people can get this level by watching grass grow (almost), so it’s not special to them, so they do not seak it out.
Things that haunt me to this day are things I heard since childhood. “not living up to my potential”, “can’t focus”, “easily distracted”, “daydreamer”, “so bright”, “unmotivated”.
These are the words that were on my report cards and progress reports my whole life. It continued in my professional career. My wife complained about it sometimes. I had had enough. It took the birth of my first child to get a diagnosis for what I knew I had all along. Meds and counseling are the way to go, but you have to find someone who really specializes and who you get along with. Its a hard road though, I’m still working on it. I only wish that someone had caught it earlier, and that I’d understood it earlier. Would have made so much of a difference.
You’re right, not all ADHD meds are stimulants, but a good many of them are, and back in my day, there was only one. I forget that things change quickly in the pharmaceutical world. And no, it doesn’t rule out ADHD, but the desired reaction can confirm the diagnosis.
Your explanation of ADHD may have some merit, but it is NOT the case for me. The way I explain it is, to an ADHD sufferer, all stimulus is equal stimulus. I often use what I call the “restaurant scenario”: you’re in a restaurant dining with a friend. Your friend has engaged you in conversation. You hear the background music - which most people can tune out. YOU cannot tune it out. It’s as much a priority as the conversation you’re having. So is the waitress’s perfume that you’ve noticed. And the way the guy across the room keeps clearing his throat. And that woman with the annoying laugh… and someone just broke a glass behind the bar,which reminds you, you forgot to turn the dishwasher on before you left and you’re not going to have clean glasses for tonight’s dinner. Suddenly, you realize you have no idea what your friend is saying to you. Now comes the coping mechanism: you interrupt, or you avert attention from yourself, or you avert attention TO yourself - in short, you act inappropriately.
And for the record, I can easily sit and watch grass grow. Or play video games for hours. When I’m fully engaged in something for whatever reason, I am able to concentrate on it to the exclusion of ALL ELSE, up to and including my own body’s signals - hunger, thirst, needing to go to the bathroom.
About the “benefits” of having ADHD: I’m creative - partly because ADHD often creates a pattern of boundary diffusion, i.e. thinking outside the box. To many ADHD sufferers, that phrase has no meaning - we didn’t know there WAS a box. Another reason for my creativity is that I have always had to think fast, not to keep up, but to catch up. Put me on the spot and I will blurt 10,000 potential answers, one of which is bound to fit, or I will force it to fit (that’s impulsiveness and manipulation, too.) ADHD people are often very good under pressure, because we are naturally motivated by crisis. The downside of that is that we are sometimes not motivated by anything BUT crisis.
No, she’s not. (Terrible, I mean.) But it’s easy for people to think so.
Going through this thread, I see pretty much the full spectrum of reactions, from the “Give 'em all the drugs and therapy they need” to “It’s not a disease and you’re just a bad parent who can’t discipline your kid” mentality.
Here’s my thoughts (and I Am Not A Psychologist):
I (at age 32) was recently diagnosed, by a clinician and diagnostician, as having ADHD (Inattentive Type). The purpose of the psychoneurological testing I underwent was actually to test for indications of Asperger’s Syndrome or Autistic Spectrum Disorder. The result was ADHD and a social phobia. This crystalized a lot of the problems I had in grade school, middle school, high school, college, grad school, and post-collegate career and life. Mind you, it wasn’t an exclusive cause–there are many other factors–but it made sense of a lot of things, like why I could top-end a college entry exam and get A’s in difficult, upper division math classes, but did poorly in simple, boring basics.
By the way, don’t get too hung up on the labels. In order to diagnose a problem and pathologize a behavior, psychologists have to make a judgement and throw a patient into a category. Just because your step-daughter may indicate signs of ADHD doesn’t mean she is ADHD, if you follow my drift. She’s a person first, who has behaviors that fit into that category. This is an important distinction, because ADHD is a diagnosis that covers a very wide range of behavior. Your daughter may not (will probably not) be like the next kid with ADHD. She may be inattentive. The next kid might be hyperactive, bouncing off the walls and disrupting classes. The next…and so forth.
Now, in my own, nonprofessional, opinion, ADHD is a pathologization of a behavior that may have been evolutionarily appropriate in the prehistoric world but doesn’t fit so well in the corporate, conformist, follow-the-roadsigns modern world. ADHD people often tend to pick up on small details, or intuitatively understand complex interactions without effort, but are unable to “slow down” and listen or sit still. One can imagine how this might be of benefit to an ancient hunter/gatherer, but not so useful when you’re stuck in traffic, looking up someone’s tailpipe and unable to move.
You can think of this as a disease, if you like, or just a natural condition that doesn’t fit in quite right in modern society, but it isn’t a choice or an expression of laziness, and it certainly isn’t a result of bad parenting. It requires that the child learn methods and behaviors to minimize the difficulty in dealing with academics and other concentration-requiring tasks. I would caution against trying to get every compensation possible for the child–she’ll have to learn to deal with it in the real world eventually–but recognize, and try to communicate to her teachers the difficulty she may have in controlling her attention or behavior at times, so that they can correct her behavior in an appropriate way, rather than just punishing her for “acting out”.
As has already been noted, ADHD-diagnosed people tend to be more creative, and possibly more intellegent in some ways, than average. (One might argue that they have to be in order to successfully cope with the challenge.) As another poster noted, ADHD children have the seemingly ironic tendancy to “hyperfocus”; as hard as it may be for them to do what they’re told in school, they may be able to focus to a point of complete engrossment on a task that grabs their attention. Personally, I can become so absorbed by a book that I would literally not notice a fight going on in front of me.
As for the drugs, I haven’t used them (yet) and I don’t have a recommendation one way or another, except that every child responds differently, and the diagnosis, again, falls within an entire spectrum of behaviors, so no one approach, drug, therapy, what have you, is going to fit for all.
My own personal experience with it, which may or may not reflect what your daughter shows, is that I am able to focus very intently on things that interest me, like math, programming, reading, et cetera, but I become extremely bored in lectures, social activities, watching sports, and so forth. I score very high on IQ and other standardized tests, but do poorly in academic subjects in which I’m not really interested. At work, I have difficulty finishing up niggling details or working on an aspect of a project that is uninteresting to me, but because of my memory am able to recall facts and information (especially numbers) in great detail. I find that writing helps me to organize and focus my thoughts, but when communicating verbally I tend to ramble, and/or deliver every bit of information I know about a subject. It is both wonderful, to be able to come up with so many ideas at once, and so frustrating that I am unable to simultaneously execute all of them.
It’s can be a tough row, but not as bad as some, and there are many different avenues to assist with helping her learn to cope with it. It’s better that you start doing so now, and don’t try to protect her too much from the challenges she’ll have to face at some point, but do provide support and nurture to her.
I hope that this provides some small measure of insight or assistance to you.
Stranger
To expand on what you’ve said here and extend what I stated in a previous post, perhaps it should be considered a “condition”, rather than a disease. The differences between the way ADHD people and “normal” people will respond to an environment (like a classroom or business meeting) can be problematic, but as you note, they can also offer other ways of approaching or thinking about problems, if for no other reason than that they are cycling through so many ideas rapidly. It’s a difference (and we’re supposed to be all about celebrating differences in our enlightened society, right? :rolleyes: ) but it doesn’t fit in well with conformance to a single way of thinking or expectation of behavior. This doesn’t excuse the disruption that can be caused by a hyperactive student or the indifference of an inattentive child, but it indicates that different than normal methods need to be used to engage their attention and modify their behavior. Putting an ADHD child in the corner for not being able to sit still in class is just intensifying the problem; giving an ADHD student an extra assignment to engage their interest is teaching them to deal with it.
An important point that I negelected to make mention of, but like many people with ADHD, I suffer from depression which is, in part, due to how poorly I performed in school and how badly I related to other children. There’s no saying what would have been, but had I had more support, and an understanding of why I could do nothing right in school as far as most of my teachers were concerned, I think I would have coped much better. I had one teacher–Mrs. Starnes, third grade–who I think made great efforts to provide as much individual attention to her students as possible, and I did so much better that year, socially and academically, and was so much happier than any other time in my childhood, that I wonder how things might have been better had all of my teachers been that astute.
Stranger
Actually I think it does. The way I see it is you are scanning for stimulation. I don’t mean you are doing it intentionally, nor is the child in school, but on a subconscience level, your brain is scanning for that level of stimulation - you have no control over this. When you find something that does reach that level, then your brain locks onto it (again you don’t have a choice in the matter).
My definition may not work for you, and that;s fine with me, I just wanted to clarify.
There is also the inattentive (as opposed to hyperactive) aspect to AD/HD, and some do both (but at different times). The way I understand it is instead of seaking or creating the stimulation externally, you turn inside your own mind for it, in a semi-meditative state, which can be very stimulating. Perhaps this is what you ment by you can watch grass grow? I don’t know many w/ ADD who can focus on a single object w/o much pratice or meds.
Also let me go a step further and go into how I feel stim meds work for ADD. They basically amplify nerve impulses, so something that normally would seem boaring, such as class, comes to life and surpasses that level that a person w/ ADD craves. For that matter almost everything also meets that level, so instead of a hyperfocusing condition (to hold on to the single stimulating event) the person can switch from task to task.
Again this is the way I understand it, YMMV and if it doesn’t work for you, I’m fine w/ it.