Where do you get “virtually no one” from? This tiny sampling of disconnected ivory tower post-grads? How do you think the frail and toothless woman who has devoted her short and miserable life to eeking out a survival strategy for her family feels when you call her and her children “white trash”? Were she urban and dark — a part of your standard protectorate — would you hold the same opinion of “black trash”?
Funny, I started reading thinking “Whatever.” But as I read and got to thinking, I realized that it is not an acceptable phrase. If various pejorative terms for blacks, asians and other minority groups are not tolerated then this one should not be. On principle, if nothing else. Although I would like to note that “white/trailer trash” is about the only group in America that almost everyone seems to dislike.
As a black hispanic, I have to say that “white trash” are not born with the same advantages that I have. In no way. Being born white guarantees you nothing. I went to college. If Bubba who did not finish high school in the next county went for the same job that I was, it is ridiculous to think that he is going to get JUST FOR BEING WHITE.
Now, I think anyone should be allowed to call anyone else whatever the hell they want. It just should not be tolerated by thinking people. Anyone here can call me “an uppity nigger.” But I do not think they would be allowed to get away with it by most of the other posters. I think some things are self-correcting. As someone else noted, if ban you white trash, then what is the difference between retarded or those underlooked groups, the douchebags and asshats? Really, when I hear someone use retarded and gay as insults my skin crawls.
I would like to say that I was under the impression that the disadvantaged groups in the Appalachians are not classified as “white/trailer trash,” that t.t. was a little more, um, nuanced. Actually, my dad and I have been trying to pin down the differences between the phrases “trailer trash” and “hillbilly” and whatnot to bring to his friend (a hispanic) who calls every white person a “redneck.” He does not seem to realize how stupid he sounds.
I don’t see the white woman in question on this board. I cannot concern myself with the possible (virtual) feelings of a non-existant woman–I am sure she would have other priorities, if she did exist.
As to the moniker “black trash”–calling someone that would depend on their behavior and/or attitude.
If a black person is yelling across the grocery store at the top of their lungs–they are acting trashy. The term “black trash” isn’t really used-probably (and sadly) because there are so many other perjoratives to choose from. I have certainly thought the term in reference to the above situation (which is happening with increasing frequency)–but here’s the deal: I don’t think that the above person is yelling in the grocery store BECAUSE of the color of their skin.
I think they are yelling because they have been raised in a barn and don’t know how to act. (raised in a barn is another slam to our hinterlands-shall we remove that one, too?). So, I consider that person trashy, but their race has nothing to do with it.
If I heard a white person do the same thing–I would think the same thing (trashy) but in speaking of the incident to others, I would probably use the term “white trash”. I think this may be true because there are still people who when you say “trash”, automatically think it refers to non-whites. But again, their whiteness has nothing to do with it–it is more because noone bothered to ever teach them manners.
This is not a screed against rural America–having been there many times and lived with folks from “flyover” country, I can attest to alot of good solid citizenry out there. Again, WT to me is an attitude, and a set of behaviors–not a racist term and not really an all encompassing class term, either.
YMMV.
I agree that hillbilly, white trash and redneck are not synonyms–they share some connotations, but the differences are subtle.
There is that. You would not call every white you run into “white trash.” Whereas a person inclined to use “nigger” more than likely is refering to ALL black people, whether they be doctors or drug dealers.
I will maintain that it is inflammatory speech. And I will add that to be perfectly honest I will probably still think it.
I, for one, would not be insulted at all if someone called me “white trash.” In fact, I would laugh. And hard. I know who and what I am, and that’s not it.
I also think there’s a certain pride about trashiness fostered in southern culture in some ways. Country music, racing…a lot of things seem to cash in on the culture and thereby perpetuate it.
Just an opinion.
Yeah, out of sight out of mind.
It was mentioned earlier that Chris Rock, for example, explicitly defines his use of “nigger” to refer only to a particular subset of black people.
So how would everyone feel about: “A nigger! (In the Chris Rock sense of the word)” as a declaration?
Personally, as a black person, I’d have no problem with it. Since it’s referring to a specific type of person in the group–rather than the entire group itself-- I’d have no problem with it.
However, the word “nigger” is still a very loaded word, and is commonly used to refer to a whole group, Chris Rock meaning or not. White trash does not have a different meaning to describe the entire white race, and so the analogy between “WT” and a “nigger” doesn’t work.
I suspect people’s answers would be different, probably due to overreacting and thinking the Chris Rock meaning is racist, or just saying it is racist, because of knee-jerk political correctness. It seems everyone’s offended about it but blacks ourselves.
To me, hate speech falls under the umbrella of “being a jerk”. Would it be workable for the Board policy to be “Being a jerk is bannable – unless you’re being a jerk by using hate speech, in which case we’ll wait for the social pressure here to change your behavior or drive you away”?
In the case of blatant offensive provocative hate speech, I’m for invoking the jerk rule immediately. If a particular way of being a jerk is allowed, the next question is why all jerkish behavior should not be handled by social pressure alone – and we’ve seen many times how well that works :rolleyes: .
Often hate speech is clearly recognizable; sometimes it’s not, and that’s when we turn to debate, discussion, social pressure, and ultimately the opinion of the Mods, just as we do for the “don’t be a jerk” rule in general.
What does that matter? Why must a word have a meaning that describes an entire race to be a hateful word? Would you argue that “plate lip” is acceptable since it describes only the Murzi tribe?
How far does it go, Liberal? Are we babies now? Is any name-calling now hateful and should be banned, regardless of the context in which it was used? If you call me pop-eye, because I have one eye, should Popeye be banned, since it describes a specific ‘person’?
If I have large lips and you call me Mr. Murzi, is that hate speech? Is that hateful? If I’m pale skinned and you call me Casper, should Casper be banned, or Ghost or stinky, stinky undead boy? Is that hateful?
Where’s the line?
Are you being deliberately difficult? The frail old lady you describe IS NOT WHITE TRASH BY THE CURRENT USAGE OF THE TERM! The current usage describes people who are TRASHY, and as a Southern gentleman you know that. The “white” part is just a modifier and one that may not be necessary beyond improving the flow of the phrase. As the saying was when I was a lad, trash is trash.
Liberal, your apparently deliberate obtuseness (I mean, can anybody be that stubbornly dense and still operate a computer?) in this and many other threads sometimes makes me question your sincerity.
Ok, I’ll bite. I was talking about the word “nigger” being divided into two meanings–the Chris Rock meaning (which I have no problem with, and actually find a bit true at times) and the racist meaning.
And to answer your last question, although it reallyhas nothing to do with what I said before, no.
The Chris Rock connotation is NOT hatespeech. The way I see this meaning, it singles out the blacks who CHOOSE to be ignorant and obnoxious. The same could be said for “white trash”. Or any other group. The “nigger” term used to talk about all blacks, whether ignorant or bright, and without regard to their character or demeanor, however, is hatespeech. This meaning for “nigger” cannot have parallels to the meaning of “white trash”.
Bah. Leave it to me to fuck up my coding.
There isn’t one. That’s the point. Any line is arbitrary. It’s no secret that I’ve never liked the rule against so-called hate speech, and for that very reason. I’m arguing from absurdity just as Cosmosdan is. In other words, since there is no line, why draw one at all?
I take it by your silence that you understand what I’m trying to say. 
I got whooshed, I suppose.
You know, that sort of rhetorical sloth deserves a pitting of its own, but frankly I don’t care that much. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean that he is dense or obtuse. And frankly, when that accusation is thrown out there, it is a sure sign that your own argument has zero logical support. (As is a link to your own post for a cite.)
Or maybe I’m a racist who hates everyone who isn’t red. You could also take it that the board is slow as shit, and I’m responding to three people. Whatever.