I wonder if cops think a cop that lawyers up are guilty, just like they do for us. Hah - just kidding!
I hope his fellow commissioners start a recall today. He’s nothing but a liability to them now.
What’s weird is that this guy’s whole career seems more it was on the political side rather than law enforcement, even tho he was a cop. Sneaking around to be sworn in as city commissioner in the middle of this and now this statement show how oblivious he is to what’s happening in his city right now.
Children were still alive but bleeding out. The horses hadn’t fully left the barn yet.
EDIT: As for the dude in the hospital, the article I read said that he killed himself when the cops started opening the door.
Are you really saying that that was just a complete coincidence? He just happened to have finished all his killing and was ready to commit suicide right at the same moment the cops were coming in? Or is it possible he could have kept shooting and the fact that they went in quickly did actually make a huge difference?
In the sense that the fundamental solutions are for the “political” thread, sure.
But in the “police response” thread, you surely cannot be suggesting that the established active shooter protocol to engage the shooter immediately is pointless, just because it happened to be irrelevant in one incident in Tulsa?
Thanks for clarifying. Surely none of us narrowly discussing the police response is under any illusion that a perfect police response is any kind of ultimate solution.
This hang back and wait thing came into being with the creation of swat teams.
Put yourself in shoes of hostage. You maybe feel relief at sound of sirens. Then confusion, incredulousness. What are they doing. Did they just order donuts ? Yup. They are waiting for swat team to go home for their ninja pajamas and machine guns.
Now when swat arrives they negotiate to prevent harm to hostages. If the bad guy harms hostages then negotiation over and swat goes in.
My argument is the creation of tactical teams has created this situation.
There is no police job a patrolman cannot handle with his sidearm and the shotgun in his cruiser.
Any cop can negotiate if advisable and any cop can taken action to subdue a shooter.
I’m the case of a grade school, every cop should run to the sound of gunfire.
Parents, why are you asking permission from a cop hiding behind his car. Don’t ask. Go get your kids.
Remember the kid a columbine trying to escape the building and the cops at columbine trying to push the kid back in the window
Bugs me a bit too. It says right in the title no political stuff so why bother hinting around about a political solution in this thread when there is already a thread that you can talk all you want about political options.
Has anyone seen a video of the door the teacher and the shooter used that you can actually see something on? The ones I’ve seen look like poorly shot black and white footage from 50 yards away. I can’t see anything worthwhile from those videos. I don’t think even CSI: Texas (coming this fall on CBS!) could do enough zooming and filling pixels to make it useful.
You can’t determine from any one incident whether holding back or charging in works better, because you don’t know how things would have turned out if you used the other strategy. But, sadly, incidents like this are quite common, so you can get quite good statistical information by looking at all of the incidents. And the people who have done so have concluded that charging in immediately, on average, leads to less-bad outcomes.
In Uvalde, I’m not ready to say that there are not enough puzzle pieces that can be stitched together and tell us, in excruciating detail, what happened when.
Understanding the timeline – the real timeline – tragically – may give us visibility into the relationship between the LE response and the damage done by the shooter.
I suspect it’ll take the DoJ’s investigation to get this granular and this accurate, if even they can do it.
But I wouldn’t rule it out yet.
Obviously, though, aside from liability and other repercussions, there’s pretty much nothing but another massive dose of unimaginable pain on this particular horizon for any number of families in this tragedy.
A Texas state senator is alleging that the 911 calls from inside the school weren’t relayed to the school district chief officer.
“I was told specifically,” Gutierrez told reporters. “My question specifically was was the (school district) police officer … on duty (told) about the calls? I was specifically told no.”
Who were they relayed to then? As far as I know, 911 calls go out to everyone’s radio. There would be no point to relaying them if you had to do each individual officer. Not one officer of the 19 in the hallway heard any updated 911 calls? Every new thing we hear makes this situation look worse.
As the article points out, even if this info is true, Chief Pete still did the wrong thing. He had to know there would be some wounded kids in there. Heck, there was still shooting while he was in the hallway.
The selective release of info, often vague, just screams coverup. They can tell us exactly how many magazines, number of shots fired and number of rounds unfired that the shooter had. But they can’t tell us why the school doors were left open?
And as far as I know from quite a bit of listening to police radio, 911 calls don’t get “relayed” to anyone’s radio. The dispatcher is the middle person between the caller and officers. I can’t recall an instance where the caller was speaking directly to officers at all.
At least from listening to our police scanner during some, er, interesting events in our neighborhood, it seems like the 911 center is relaying information to someone at police HQ who is then relaying information to the police radios. So not only are the 911 calls not going directly to the police cars, they are being relayed by two people.
We can recognize the voices of the police dispatcher (?) who is a woman at the police station, while 911 calls are taken by a regional facility (each little town does not have its own 911 call center, but does have its own police force).
Bad phrasing on my part. I meant what you said, 911 operators relaying to officers on the scene. And all officers should get them, so even if Chief Pete wasn’t carrying a radio because it ruined the lines of his uniform, the other 18 officers should have received the updates.
I have never heard of that. I wonder why they would insert another person in the communications who is basically just repeating information.
It is probably something close to impossible to have one person dispatching for multiple separate police departments - some regional 911 centers take calls for 20 or more police departments
It still seems more efficient to have 20 regional operators that can directly communicate with officers, than 1 regional officer who then plays a game of telephone with 20 local dispatchers that then relays info to the officer. Like the point of the Telephone game, the more people involved, the worse the information. Even if it’s only one extra person.
The small town I live near has a small police force. If I call 911 my call is answered by someone who then checks to see if a police officer is available (the one cop on duty might be testifying in a trial, for example). If the local police cannot handle the call, it is forwarded to the State Police Barracks.