I saw a really interesting documentary the other day that described a theory which posits that polio vaccination trials which were being conducted in Africa may have been the link that transmitted SIV (the simian predecessor to HIV) to humans.
If you look at the first documented cases of HIV in Africa, they are startlingly close to the area where one particular doctor was giving out over a million experimental polio vaccines to local people. And his trials were occurring literally just a few years before these cases of HIV popped up.
And, apparently, chimpanzee tissue is the preferred medium to use for the creation of human vaccines, since our genetic structures are so similar. HIV was transmitted to humans from the SIV virus in chimpanzees.
As coincidences go, this one is pushing credibility in my opinion. It also explains why humans never contracted HIV previous to the 1950s, given that we have been living alongside chimps (and presumably eating them) for millenia.
The scientific community has been quick to quell this theory, claiming that chimpanzee tissue was never used in those vaccine trials. As I see it, they have a vested interest in trying to destroy this theory, since it basically posits that scientific endeavor may have given humanity the worst disease it’s ever come across.
Yeah… Here’s a pro tip. If any “documentary” has anything negative to say about vaccines, and it isn’t popular in the mainstream, it’s probably bullshit. Vaccines have been the target of bullshit smear campaign after bullshit smear campaign by dishonest, antisocial idiots like Andrew Wakefield and the whole crew at Age of Autism (who, in a just world, would all get polio, measles, rubella, diptheria, and pertussis, in that order). I’m sorry, I have no patience for crap like this. The HIV-vaccine link is a zombie idea that just keeps coming back regardless of how often it is completely dissected and proven wrong. Why? Because the people in charge of the anti-vaccine movement are, by and large, dishonest and uninterested in evidence. I don’t mean any of this to be mean towards you - you almost certainly just stumbled across this and found it compelling (as many might), but I have a zero-tolerance policy for anti-vaccination crap. Why? Because vaccines are quite possibly the single most indisputably beneficial societal advancement in the history of mankind, and their true potential is being held back by braindead celebrities like Rob Schneider and lying frauds like Andrew Wakefield.
Keep in mind, none of my vitriol here is directed towards you. I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt. My hatred goes out to known fraudsters - those who are demonstrably wrong and yet continue to put people’s lives at risk with dangerous bullshit misinformation. People like those behind Age of Autism, the Thinking Mom’s Revolution, NVIC, and assorted others. Those guys need to go die in a fire. You’re fine. Just… listen, learn, and try to avoid falling for their crap.
Actually, they’ve been quick to quell the theory out of an entirely rational fear that it will lead to fewer people using incredibly safe drugs to effectively prevent disease from even occurring in the first place. Given that Measles is already making a comeback in various parts of the world where this crap is caught on, I’d call that a very noble effort. There is absolutely no link between polio vaccines and HIV. All evidence you provided is either debunked or can be chalked up as complete coincidence, and extensive study has shown that any such concerns are utterly without merit.
Bubonic Plague deserves mention as well. And Smallpox. Which no longer exists. Why? Vaccines. We could do this to Measles, Mumps, Rubella, Pertussis, Polio, Diptheria, and countless others. It’s not easy, but it’s possible. Just a shame Wakefield, McCarthy and co. set us back 50 fucking years. :mad:
I’ve always feared King Cholera, myself. Another natural disaster? I wince because it’s usually followed by Cholera, Typhus, Typhoid, and a host of other things Mother Nature has designed to kill us.
Heck, we’re not even a century past the Spanish Flu - killed more people in three years than AIDS has in three decades.
Anyway, the alternative version of the OP’s suggestion I heard a while back was that HIV was spread in part because of the reuse of syringes during large-scale immunization efforts in Africa, i.e. unsanitary practices rather than any specific problem with one or more vaccines. This was told to me by a friend of mine who was an Assistant Chemistry Professor at McGill circa 1993, but he might have been just repeating a hypothesis he’d heard somewhere.
It started out with the attempt to patent a replacement measles vaccine (along with the undeclared financial backing of the lawyer’s consortium put together by parents who were looking for a reason to sue pharmaceutical companies). Now, since he’s been discredited and struck off the GMC list, the only way he can earn a living is to continue to be bankrolled by the anti-science vaccine denialist crowd.
It’s always been about the money for him. That, and the notoriety/fame.
To be fair, my OP said nothing about whether vaccines are good or not, or suggested that I agree with the anti-vaccine conspiratorial crowd.
I worry that a mere theory that seems to contain a few logical connections is so vehemently shot down and a load of fringe baggage is granted to the messenger. I hope you realize you seem as fundamentalist as the conspiracy kooks, by not even engaging the discussion.
Ah, the old “you refuse to even look at this” woo defense. How often do we have to look at each woo thing? There have been hundreds of published studies on this stuff, cites for several of which have been presented here. That’s not enough? How many more would satisfy you?
Science examines a question, and when it finds an answer it moves on. Having to go back and re-examine every question every time some anti-science idiot decides their feelings are more important than evidence would prevent us from ever getting anything else done.
This theory is thoroughly discredited. There is mounds of evidence, and a conclusion has been reached. The fact that morons want to ignore said evidence and claim that a conclusion hasn’t been reached doesn’t change that. It’s done. If deniers want us to revisit it, they’ll need to provide evidence that outweight what’s out there now–not just tell us who live in the rational world that we’re not open-minded enough. Let them waste their time rehashing dead horses.
The cite is from the College of Physicians of Philadelphia. It is filled with thousands of references to studies that are not in dispute. What sort of site or cite would you prefer for this alleged proper debunking you supposedly seek?
