Thank You! That, I think, gets to the heart of what bothers me about this type of editing. The fact that I think it speaks to a desire to sanitize the past. These cartoons, old books and movies are an important snapshot of another time. Until we are willing to look unflinchingly at the past, we will be doomed to keep making the same stupid mistakes over and over.
The cartoons aren’t edited forever, they’re just showing edited versions on TV. It might annoy purists to see the incomplete cartoons, but it’ll annoy parents a lot more when they overhear their kids repeating words like “nip” and “slant-eyes” (for example.)
When I spent a summer babysitting, the standing orders were for the kid to be allowed to sit and watch Cartoon Network. If some racist cartoon had come on, what I was I, as a babysitter, supposed to do? Take it on myself to explain to someone else’s kid the nature of race issues in America? Let it go? Change the channel against Mama’s orders? These shows aren’t being shown with the father or mother lovingly waiting beside the child for anything that needs explaining. The kid will become aware of race issues when race issues become a part of the kid’s life… no need to have Bugs Bunny hurrying things.
Of course, I hated watching Warner Brothers cartoons even as a kid, with the notable exception of Speedy Gonzales. He was cool.
by Weird with Words:
So then why did you feel the need to bring up your cherokee-ness if it is something that is immaterial to your identity? It’s irrelevant, dude.
To all you who are decrying these sanitized cartoons because of the “loss of both historically value and the myriad of teaching opportunities that could rendered upon our youth”, how about you lobby for Loony Toons to be shown on the History Channel or TLC? Most people aren’t watching CN to develop an appreciation for how far we’ve progressed in the post-MLK era; they watch the damn channel to laugh. Maybe you think dehumanizing stereotypes are hilarious, but a lot of folks do not.
Which is worse? That the baby is thrown out with the bathwater and the cartoons are not shown at all? Or that a compromise is made and editing is allowed? If non-edited versions exist on video/DVD for those who want the unadulterated cartoons, I really don’t see the point of ranting because the CN has the audacity to show the versions it wants to show.
You’re a dumbass. If they consider the cartoons to be offensive, they can simply withdraw them. But pretending that the cartoons were drawn some other way makes them liars. No one is suggesting that the racial stereotypes are okay.
Stop being so stupid.
It’s all about context. If we want kids to learn about racism, about the attitudes that were prevalent in the past and why they were wrong and where we are now and how we still need to improve, then we need to do so in a manner that is clear and concise. For young children, especially, depictions of racism in entertainment media are not going to teach an anti-racism lesson unless they are also coupled with some consequence for the racist.
There were no consequences for Bugs Bunny when he blew up the Japanese man for no reason other than his classification as a “Nip.” There was no comeuppance for Daffy for giving himself a half-mark for killing the “half-breed.” Tom is never chastised for his moments in blackface, the cartoon just rolls right along.
A child watching these cartoons would come away with one of two opinions: that these sorts of things were okay or that the cartoon was weird and made no sense and what was it supposed to mean, anyway?
And that’s not even addressing the stereotyping which is even harder to explain, because it requires a dual clarification, first it must be distinguished and pointed out, then it must be explained and condemned in an understandable way. “See, Billy, how all of Speedy Gonzalez’s friends are sitting around, not doing anything, taking naps against the wall and talking really slowly?” “Yeah.” “See, that’s called a negative stereotype, in this case, about Hispanic people. Stereotyping is…”
And then little Billy has to try to not only wrap his head around harmful stereotyping, he has to try to figure out how a bunch of mice who talk funny are representative of some kind of people.
Is this something that every parent should have to be prepared and on guard to do after every afternoon their kid spends watching some old cartoons on CN, just so that some adults – who still find broad, offensive race stereotypes entertaining for some reason – can have their old cartoons intact in the fashion that they remember?
I’d say absolutely not. Cartoon Network is not the History Channel, the Documentary Channel or The Learning Channel. Its purpose is to entertain, not to provide a jumping-off point for whatever lessons someone might have the opportunity (if they’re aware and if they are capable) to impart to their child about heated social matters.
But why not — listen carefully — let them entertain with new material rather than deceitfully revising the old? (Reminder: the OP’s complaint is about revisionism.)
Kids stereotype each other for any reason under the sun. Your ears are different. Your eyes are green. Your finger is crooked. You wear yellow dresses.
But if you relegate reality to the History Channel, while modifying original material on the Cartoon Network, then why should kids even believe what they see on the History Channel?
After all, they see the “originals” on the Cartoon Network, so the History Channel must be lying.
Lib, in what way is CN, WB, or whomever it is who controls this pretending and lying?
If they want to selectively edit the artwork that they own, then they are not being deceitful, they’re just being selective.
They’re not denying the existance of other clips, just limiting their release.
If I write a book and let you read it, then give you a version with two of the chapters missing, I’m not lying.
anticipating a response
You might say, ‘well, they don’t preface each show with a, ‘this has been modified, etc etc etc,’ so it is deceitful.’
My response to that is that the kids who the CN is market towards don’t care! The kids aren’t being lied to, because they don’t care about ‘originals,’ ‘historical accuracy,’ or any of that. Did Disney make it clear that they were manipulating Grimm tales? Is that somehow a travesty?
Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough, but that was rather my point. I originally spoke of that in response to someone’s allegation that the only people who are bothered by PCness are white and middle-aged. My point was that your race can be completely irrelevant, depending on how you’re raised, or perhaps the environment you’re raised in.
First, the important stuff - it was Bugs who made the half-breed comment (“Horse Hare” 1960) - Granny did the one little, two little (no “half-breed”) in “Tom-Tom Tomcat” (1953) Daffy’s encounters with indians did not include the song.
Secondly - Some of the cuts were done to the negatives (the original ending to “The Heckling Hare” is gone, but that was not a recent cut.
More to the point - WB is not editing the prints they release, they are simply refusing to release them. The Inky toons, for instance, used to be released (see the lasers) - don’t expect them to come around again (although why they never released “Caveman Inky” is a puzzlement - Inky is NOT the caveman, just his exhuberent self, pursued, as usual, by a lion cub and the mynah.)
So no, once the current tapes are worn out, and the lasers rotted, there will be no legal source for the “controversial” WB toons still under WB copyright.
(can you say: “Get it while you can”?)
And for TV - CN has exclusive rights to the WB toons, so don’t expect to see them on adult-oriented channels.
Before I continue, I should make clear that I actually agree with the bulk of posts here defending CN’s right to alter what they show to fit what they think their market wants. I just don’t like it.
Anyway, the reason I quoted you was to provide one little nitpick, and only because I think the quote is representative of what I believe to be a commonly held misconception. CN’s target audience may be children, but that’s not who watches it, except between 3-6 PM. And obviously CN is starting to notice this, what with their addition of Adult Swim and a whole bunch of Japanime that no kid could give half a shit about.
I think it would be really cool for Cartoon Network to do an “Adult Swim” type show with all of these cartoons run unedited. I’d watch it with my kids.
I can’t blame them for not running racists and derogatory cartoons during the day just to keep Airman happy. You know, historically sex happens and I’d like to see Fritz the Cat uncut in the middle of the day. If they did decide to run these cartoons during the day, I don’t think I’d be outraged though.
Well, maybe Fritz would outrage me a little.
Eonwe
In the very worst way possible. They are pretending that racism never existed, and they are lying about history. Ironically, in doing so, they are planting the seeds for a generation of racists. They have wiped out all the lessons to be learned.
Whoever modifies something for the sake of presenting a history that never happened and hiding one that did is making a monumental mistake. What people (especially kids) learn from is experience, and if the experience never happened, there is nothing to be learned.
I think you hit the nail on the head. They take cartoons that were made for adults, and use them as a cheap way to fill airtime on kid’s shows. I don’t know that there’s a lot of social value in showing racist cartoons to children without explaining the historical context, but I do think there are a lot of adults who would like to see those old cartoons in their original, uncensored versions. It does seem a bit silly for the owners to refuse to allow access to these cartoons, many of which are real works of art. Any adult with a brain in his head is going to have a reaction not of “Gee, those minorities sure are stupid”, but rather “Gee, it’s amazing how racist our society was not too long ago.”
This is precisely the reaction I had 30 to 35 years ago when I first saw the WB’s and T&J’s in question. Children are not stupid, in fact, they are highly effecient bullshit detectors. I’m dubious that viewing a dated depiction of a racial stereotype could turn a child into a bigot. In fact, I think it would be likely to have the opposite effect (if the child caught the cultural signficance of the jokes at all – how many 8 year olds know what a “pickaninny” is, anyway?)
I could see a program explaining racism using the original, unedited cartoons. I think part of the problem is that we no longer live in a society where racism is overt and tolerated, at least not to the same degree as in the forties, when these cartoons were produced. Kids born after 1970 or so have no real frame of reference to this kind of stereotyping. CN would do a real service if they could produce such a program.
Robin
As a child, the “black face” segments were funny: “Oh look, Daddy his face got soot on it. But his lips didnt get it, isnt that funny?” Dad would just laugh that I thought it was funny, and we’d move on. No need to explain to a 4 year old the centuries- long plight of the African Americans who were brought here specifically to be slaves. They’ll learn in school soon enough.
Dad always watched cartoons with me. It only took an hour and half each Saturday. There’s nothing hard about sitting near the TV if that’s where your kid is. It only gets difficult when you give each child a TV for their bedroom, one in the basement, one in the kitchen, one in the den, etc. THEN it gets difficult to monitor.
[WHY does a 9 year old need their own TV in their room?]
If people would stop buying into the urge that TV needs to be a constant part of their day-to-day experience, we probably wouldn’t have so many arguments about censorship. Instead of getting fired up that words were bleeped or parts were cut, you’d just flip the TV off and go read a book, or a magazine, or hop on the internet. LOTS of uncensored info to be had elsewhere, just go look.
That’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard. They aren’t pretending racism never happened, they are choosing not to diseminate racist images during a children’s entertainment program! This is the Cartoon Network. It’s not CNN, it’s not the History Channel, it’s not even the fucking Lifetime channel. It’s the Cartoon Network! There is a time and a place to educated children about racism, and this isn’t it.
They aren’t presenting history. They’re presenting cartoons. They’re trying to make you laugh, not think. One more time, because this thread seems to have attracted a larger number of the hard of thinking than normal, these cartoons should be preserved and they should be made available to adults who are interested in the subject matter. They should not be broadcast without context in the middle of a show who’s purpose is the entertainment of children.
Jesus, people, the sense of entitlement in this thread is completely fucking ridiculous. The cartoon Network isn’t “lying” or “distorting history” by deleting the black faced comedy of a talking rabbit from its own programming anymore than A&E is when it shows an edited for television version of Apocalypse Now. Our collective memories of the Vietnam War are not going to be horribly altered because a cable channel opts not to show a few scenes featuring a stoned Martin Sheen and our collective memories of WWII are not going to be horribly altered because a cable channel opts not to show a few scenes featuing a talking rabbit in blackface. Get the fuck over yourselves.
See, we have a little thing in this country called freedom of speech which includes the right not to say something. The Cartoon has every right to decide what it doesn’t air and they have every right to alter what they do air. You got a problem with that? You think they are doing a disservice to history? Fine. Start your own damn network where you make the decisions about what to air.
But stop insisting that someone else must air what you want. By doing that you are insisting that someone else say what you want. You are not entitled to that.
Miller
Idiot. Children are always being educated every minute of the day.
Now you sound like one of those puckered-ass conservatives who doesn’t want his kids to hear about the love that dare not speak its name.
For the umpteenth time, no one has suggested broadcasting racist cartoons on the Cartoon Network. What we have suggested … okay, pay attention — if you’re formulating your response already, you’re not listening … What we have suggested is that they make NEW cartoons rather than change the old ones.
You know what we mean by new? Hard of thinking, my ass.
Fritz Freling and the Fleischer Bros. exercised that bizarro-land right. Television producers are perfectly within their rights to not say anything they like when it comes to their own works.
What if Thomas Bowdler considered that his right to not say whatever he liked extended to ensuring that his corrected version of Shakespeare’s canon was the only form available? Would you agree?
I’ve seen the first amendment whipped out in defense of some idiotic things, A Monkey With A Gun, but that really takes the prize.