Political Correctness Debate - contd

I agree, Dangerosa that peoples have the right to settle on their own name and everyone shoud respect that (but that cuts both ways; white people have not signed off on “Euro-Americans”). But the question is sill why did Oriental “begin to sound negative”?

To me, the essence of political correctness as a form of extremism is its presumtion of racism etc, as it casts its wide net. After all, few things suck worse than being accused of something you’re innocent of. Let’s look at a few of the better-known examples of PC which come to mind:

  • A bunch of sorority sisters at Penn State, IIRC, were chanting outside a dorm when a student yelled out the window, “shut up you water buffalo!”. The girls and campus authorities assumed it was a racial slur and the student was punished under the camous speech code. But he was a Hebrew student, and in Hebrew, “water buffalo” means “big dummy”. While it may be rude to call someone a big dummy, it’s also rude to make a racket at night when people are trying to study. The student should not have been punished any worse than of he had said “big dummy” to some white guys.

  • As I mentioned earlier, the children’s book “Nappy Hailr” was protested even though it was about teaching black children to be proud of their racial features. In their knee-jerk reaction, the protesters assumed that any calling of attention to blacks’ racial features was intended to mock.

  • IIRC it was at the D.C. mayors office–where the “niggardly” first broke–where someone was called a racist for using the term “tar baby”. A tar baby is a sticky situation that gets even stickier the more you struggle to get out of it. It of course comes from the Brer Rabbit fable by Uncle Remus, fictionally an ex-slave. But how can such an indirect, oblique association to slavery be racist when much more direct references are considered important historical acknowledgements?

Mandelstam, I’m going to refer to your reply to yanx4ever, because I think it provides proper segue into all the points I hope to make.

Agreed, the term “political correctness” has been bludgeoned to fit whatever meaning the user hopes to achieve. It’s frequently just a synonym for “bad”. However, the fact that people are warping the original meaning (or rather, the meaning that first gained popularity) doesn’t mean the phenomenon it referred to doesn’t exist. To me, and I think to most people, it refers to the act of going overboard in an attempt to remove offensiveness or sanitize things. Can’t say “retarded”, because it’s offensive. Can’t say “black” because it’s offensive. Can’t show a smoker on TV because that may encourage young people to smoke. Can’t spend too much time focusing on Washington, because he owned slaves, and that’s bad, and we don’t want people to look up to someone like that.

There are a variety of different ways that PC-ness can manifest itself, but they all stem from an attempt to sugar-coat reality in ways that are not necessarily healthy. Referencing the examples I gave above:

If we humor people every time they decide some new word is Slur of the Week, it teaches them to be extremely thin skinned. It also reinforces the habit of finding discrimination everywhere you look. (Look to “Bowfinger” for a great - and pretty funny - example of what I’m talking about; Eddie Murphy is offended by a reference to Shakespeare, thinking it’s a racial slur.)

If we refuse to show unacceptable behaviors in pop-culture, we start to misrepresent reality. We also just plain-ol’ hamper artistic vision. Great example that pissed me off: In James Bond movies, Bond will no longer drink Martinis, his staple drink. Drinking is irresponsible - now he just drinks mineral water. I guess unrestrained sex and violence is okay, but heaven forbid should a kid see someone drinking.

And the Washington example just amounts to putting blinders on these kids to make sure they have no concept of what the past was really like. There was a school in - I think - New Jersey that took down all the portraits of the founding fathers in the school, because they were just a bunch of “dead white guys” and didn’t represent racial diversity. Well, maybe they weren’t diverse, but they were the most important people in our nation’s history, and denying they exist or that they did great things doesn’t do anyone any good.

I don’t know how long you’ve been out of school, but the situation is a little different now. I think the inclusion of Kwaanza and Hannikah (probably spelled wrong) is great. But that’s not what we see. We see the complete eradication of religious holidays, even when those holidays are celebrated by 90% of the population. In my school - a university - my graduate department was not allowed to throw a Christmas part for the dozen or so of us that were there. It was just for us, none of us had any objections, but we were not allowed to refer to it as a “Christmas party”, because, I dunno, someone on campus may hear us mention it and feel excluded. We had to throw a “winter holiday party”. I know my sister’s school is the same way, and from what I hear from my friends who have kids, this is pretty much the norm.

First of all, I think the Titanic example isn’t so much PC as just the typical Hollywood liberal schtick about the wealthy being evil oppresors of the underclass. While I haven’t wathced Dr. Quinn, I think I understand what yanx was saying, so I’ll comment on it.

First of all, I think that historical inaccuracies in older movies had less to do with political correctness than with entertainment factor. The wild west may not have been like it was portrayed in spaghetti westerns, but that’s because it’s more fun to see a bunch of bad-ass cowboys having shoot-outs every day. Nowadays, history is tweaked in order to make a socially palettable statement. Having Quinn talk about the vile evils of smoking, or something, wouldn’t do much for entertainment value - it would be a conscious effort to making an anti-smoking statement. Or if someone calls a guy black, and she tells him that he should use the term “African American”, or something, that’s again, making a conscious statement. I’d like yanx to post some examples of this show so I can see if I’m anywhere close to the type of PC behavior it exhibits.

There are other, less blatant examples of PC-ness in TV. For example, the representation of blacks on TV. Blacks comprise 12% of the population and commit something like 50% of the violent crimes. On TV, however, they make up about 25% of the roles and are far less likely to be criminals than white males. Also, most black roles are things like doctor, lawyer, etc. (My numbers may be wildly off, but you get the idea.) This represents an effort to not portray blacks as bad people, but goes overboard into rarely portraying them as anything but wise and noble successes. It’s politically correct in that it stems from a desire to not offend.

Very true. The use of “X” (which is technically the greek letter chi, the first letter of “Christ” when written in greek) has been used as an abbreviation for Christ for centuries, and was originated by Christians. It’s just shorthand - not, as some would believe, an effort to eliminate the name of Christ from mention.

At any rate, you make some good points, Mandelstam. I just happen to disagree with a lot of them. :slight_smile: You generally seem to agree that the behaviors we’re labelling as PC are bad, you just disagree that they all stem from the same mind-set. I think it’s telling that most of these behaviors are popping up at the same time, though - I don’t think these sorts of things were really widespread until 10-15 years ago, or so.

Jeff

BTW, thanks very much Dangerosa. :slight_smile:

**sqweels **:
“But the question is sill why did Oriental “begin to sound negative”?”

Check out Orientalism, by Edward Said. Bear in mind that I’m not saying that the book is responsible for the negative perception; only that it might shed light on why the negative perception exists.

*Let’s look at a few of the better-known examples of PC which come to mind
*

Okay, let’s do.

“A bunch of sorority sisters at Penn State, IIRC, were chanting outside a dorm when a student yelled out the window, “shut up you water buffalo!”. The girls and campus authorities assumed it was a racial slur and the student was punished under the camous speech code. But he was a Hebrew student, and in Hebrew, “water buffalo” means “big dummy”. While it may be rude to call someone a big dummy, it’s also rude to make a racket at night when people are trying to study. The student should not have been punished any worse than of he had said “big dummy” to some white guys.”

I’d like to see a cite for this as, like so many of these PC legends, it sounds garbled. I feel pretty confident in saying that Penn State would be every bit as eager to shield an international student from undue punishment as to discourage racial slurs. In what way would “water buffalo” be a racial slur anyway–whatever it means in Hebrew?

“As I mentioned earlier, the children’s book “Nappy Hailr” was protested…”

I responded to “Nappy Hair” above; so please consider that response.

“IIRC it was at the D.C. mayors office–where the “niggardly” first broke–where someone was called a racist for using the term “tar baby”. A tar baby is a sticky situation that gets even stickier the more you struggle to get out of it. It of course comes from the Brer Rabbit fable by Uncle Remus, fictionally an ex-slave. But how can such an indirect, oblique association to slavery be racist when much more direct references are considered important historical acknowledgements?”

This is also garbled, I’m afraid. I can’t provide a complete etymology of “tar baby” off the top of my head. But I have certainly heard it used as a slur for a black person more often than any other meaning. (May I suggest “quagmire” for all your sticky-denoting needs? :wink: ).

I’m sorry, sqweels, but I think it’s a bit disingenous to characterizel “tar baby” as an “oblique” slavery reference. Whatever else it may mean, t is a known as a racial slur, much like “Sambo.”

In any case, what has this got to with “niggardly”?

Of course, I can imagine someone who doesn’t know what “niggardly” means mistaking it for a racial slur; just as some people are surprised to find out was a sexagenarian is. :wink:

(Which is not of course to say that I don’t know a few hotties in their 60s.)

I’m sorry sqweels, but none of this amounts to a significant social problem for me.

El Jeffe, thanks for yours. I do promise to get back to you but not tonight as I’m crunched.

*footnote

Oh dear, I see I’ve broken my promise to get back to El Jeffe, but only b/c I forgot (having been busy over the in the Bell Curve).

kniz, that’s an interesting excerpt and much as I’d expect. Where does it come from btw? The reason I ask isn’t that I don’t trust you personally. But I’ve seen so many nonsensical stories “reported” in various internet and tabloid-type publications. These are the PC equivalent of urban legends: like the story I heard a few years back that you’re not supposed to say “blackboard” to describe an old-fashioned slate board that is black because it is deemed racist. :confused:

Yeah, the word niggardly, as I said above, can sound and look confusing to those who don’t know it’s meaning. And it’s not, after all, that commonly used. I’d not be surprised to find that majority of Americans don’t know its meaning (or perhaps didn’t prior to its getting this kind of attention). And it’s also possible–though I don’t say that Howard did this–to exploit that ignorance; using the word to offend someone, all while knowing that “really” the word has a legitimate meaning.

But I’d expect most cases to end as the one at Madison presumably did: the student learns that no insensitivity was intended. He or she probably feels very embarrassed on top of having felt offended in the first place. But at the end of the day no harm is done. The professor, perhaps, decides that it’s a good idea to explain, when s/he uses the word, that it’s a centuries-old adjective for “stingy” of Scandinavian origin. After all if the professor teaches Chaucer s/he’s used to teaching students a lot of very old words ;).

Let’s assume for the sake of argument that Howard was unjustly forced to resign without his having done anything, ever in his life, to provoke hostility prior to, during, or after this episode. Well, in my opinion, that would be pretty foul. I’d also be surprised if Howard didn’t have the makings of a lawsuit against his former employer for this kind of loss of reputation, loss of income, etc.

But, unjust thought that would be, could we see this as evidence of “political correctness” in some broad and coherent sense? As opposed to oversensitivity and/or opportunism of some kind (perhaps a select group never liked the guy in the first place) on the part of a handful of people–which got out of control b/c it wasn’t defused in the proper way as it presumably was at the university?

How widespread is this problem, in other words? And in what sense does the problem itself involve “correctly” enforcing some political program (here to do with language). Is there some group out there out to remove “niggardly” from the English language? Did a nationwide group of PC advocates mobilize to force the professor to resign? Did a local faction of PC activists block access to the professor’s door (the way anti-abortion crusaders do when, on a day-to-day-basis, they impose their view of correct morality on women and health practioners who are acting in compliance with the law)

Jeffe, if you’re reading. Let me know if you still want me to reply to your last. If you do, I will as soon as I can.

I did a bit of digging around myself on the “niggardly” story just of curiosity. An article in the Washington Post reports that the aid has been reinstated and the mayor is now apologizing for having acting too hastily. I agree that the latter is most to blame for what happened. Here, FTR, is an NAACP leader’s response:

*" NAACP Chairman Julian Bond, who in criticizing [the mayor] last week said that people should not have to “censor” their language to meet other “people’s lack of understanding,” praised Howard’s reinstatement.

“I’m happy to learn that this episode has come to some happy conclusion and that the citizens and the government of the District of Columbia can get back to talking about real issues,” he said."*

I’d say that about sums it about for me too.

Source:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/local/longterm/williams/williams020499.htm

You aren’t familiar with the “Water Buffalo” incident at Penn State?

You really do need to read this, then: The Water Buffalo Affair

While I agree with most of what you have posted, here, Mandelstam. Penn State’s egregious violation of one student’s rights (over a phrase that was clearly not a racial epithet) indicates that there are occasions when some perception of Political Correctness has been abused.

While I agree that there is not a concerted movement behind PC, there are people and organizations out there who are willing to trample the concept of free speech for the purpose of eliminating what they perceive to be hate speech or politically incorrect speech. Denying that there are idiots on both sides of the issue does not strengthen your argument.

As with Mr. Howard and “niggardly,” good sense may have triumphed in the end, but there has certainly been unjustified abuse heaped on innocent people in the name of opposing hate speech.

{sort of aside}
Remembering a Dick Gregory joke, about trying to teach Gov. Wallace to say “nigra”. My own grandparents, who were liberal for Texas, insisting on “colored”. They would have been quite confused if you told them “black” was prefered.

Come to think of it, I did. She was perplexed, but set herself to accept it. After she checked with a few ladies in the building who were in a position to know.{end of sort of aside}

I agree with that assessment. While the concept behind PC is noble, due to incidents like the above, it is becoming some sort of a joke. The fact that the “PC movement” involved consciously ritualizing politeness, it is suffering the backlash where politically incorrect speech is touted as bold and in fact, correct! Could it be that we were radical and too hasty in trying to change jargon to suit our mindsets? Language, I suspect, molds itself at a relatively slow rate, but a rate which continues to imbue it sincerety.

I agree. I want to remain White, live in a White community, enjoy White culture, have White grandchildren, and be free of nonwhites. NonWhites should leave me and my White community alone and let me and my family and community be what we want to be.

The problem is nonWhite flight. NonWhites flee from their own people and neighborhoods and soon begin destroying their new neighborhood. Then Whites are forced to move to a safer more culturally attractive neighborhood, and it continues, NonWhites fleeing from themselves.

A young black woman told my wife at work the other day, “Black men are worthless. Everytime I find one that I think is worth something he starts sitting on his butt, expecting ME to support him.” My wife was speechless.

Nice pariody, OWD, but a little off-topic for this particular thread.

Looking at this guys recent threads I dont think its a paraody tom …

erm posts

Tom:
While I agree that there is not a concerted movement behind PC, there are people and organizations out there who are willing to trample the concept of free speech for the purpose of eliminating what they perceive to be hate speech or politically incorrect speech. Denying that there are idiots on both sides of the issue does not strengthen your argument."

I’m not sure in what sense you think I’m “Denying that there are idiots.” Throughout this thread, I’ve used words like “inept,” “wrong-headed,” “oversensitive,” and “foul” to describe foolish behavior of one kind or another. In what sense is that denial?

You also mistake me if you think that, on the whole, I advocate censorship or deny the existence of organized groups determined to censor. I know that public libraries have to deal with this issue all the time. These assaults come from all over the political spectrum.

What I am denying is that there are “sides” to this “issue” for there to be idiots neatly distributed around. And what I’m also arguing, most strenuously, is that “the issue” itself, which really involves several issues, can usefully be called “political correctness.” In my opinion it cannot.

One reason I object to that designation is that it imputes a coherent political agenda that is often entirely absent to relatively isolated episodes of people behaving stupidly. Another reason I object to it is that the term is almost exclusively used to criticize people who either stand for some left position, or are seen to. If we are talking about censorship, let’s call it that and let’s admit that there is a great deal of censorship emanating from various right-leaning positions. But by talking about “political correctness” as a coherent phenomenon on the left, reasonable calls for civility end up being tarred with the brush of stupid gaffes, or problematic censorship policies. And a double standard ensues. (Yes it’s outrageous for a man to resign b/c of an innocent use of the term “niggardly”; but why should a member of an administration have to resign because she mentions masturbation?)

Let’s take the very specific example of speech on campuses. I’m not an expert on this policy by any means, though I’ve heard my share of debate back when it was raging in the early 90s. From what I understand, university administrations typically see themselves as different from, say, shopping malls, since they are in loco parentis, (in the place of parents). They have codes of conduct that exceed basic legal statute. So, for example, copying your roommate’s homework, or purchasing a paper from an outside writer, may be against the university’s code, though not against the law.

As to the “water buffalo” incident which occurred in 1993 (and did not hit my radar at that time or since). The link you posted isn’t as full as I could wish since it doesn’t give the administrator the chance to explain her position. On the surface of things, I would agree that she probably acted inappropriately: what the student said simply isn’t a racial slur, and the whole context seems unlikely to describe harassment in any meaningful sense (he all alone, sorority sisters en masse).

If this was some planned sorority event he might have, at worst, used bad judgment for not just picking up and going to the library rather than yelling at entire sorority in the midst of some outdoor performance. But bad judgement and racism are two very different things. They shouldn’t be confused and insofar as they are, I’m as opposed to it as anyone else.

The more serious debate here, I think, is to do with the speech code that was introduced in 1987 (see link). Was it the culprit here
and if it was, how can campuses can encourage the civil environment they hope to achieve without such problematic codes?

Personally, I’m even more interested in the Wisconsin case (“niggardly” in the Chaucer class). In this article from the school’s paper the impression we get is that the perceived offense was felt very strongly by the student, when the word was used, and when it was used again to explain its actual meaning. (I’d like to know more about what happened when the faculty senate met to address the problem; so I don’t want to weigh in on the subject as though all the facts are in. I just don’t have the time to research further now.)

Given what I know now, what I’m struck by is the sense this student went through an experience that many professors could not have predicted. I think the professor behaved entirely credibly, and it doesn’t sound like there was any disciplinary action against him. But I also believe that the student felt really badly and felt herself as being isolated as the only minority in the class: she was hurt by what she believed he had said, then possibly embarrassed when she learned of her mistake, and then upset again because, as he tried to rectify misunderstanding, he reopened the issue for her.

In this case especially, I’d say that we learn almost zero by characterizing this as a case of “political correctness” run amok and go on the hunt for “idiots” responsible. We’re also not really talking about censorship here, but about what professors can and should do to make their students feel comfortable and respected.

I care a great deal about academic freedom and when various trustees, and Lynn Cheney singled out professors who spoke at peace ralleys in the wake of 9/11, and called for the revoking of their tenure, I was disgusted.

I would also be disgusted if the Wisconsin professor had been disciplined for use of ambiguous language or some such thing (and I gather that was not the case).

"As with Mr. Howard and “niggardly,” good sense may have triumphed in the end, but there has certainly been unjustified abuse heaped on innocent people in the name of opposing hate speech.
"

Indeed, unjustified abuse was heaped on Mr. Howard, who by all accounts was entirely innocent, in the name of opposing hate speech.

But, to repeat my point, to characterize such episodes in terms of a widespread “political correctness” that is raging in multifarious forms inhibits rather than enhances understanding of what is at stake.

Yeah. We pretty much agree on that point. The phrase “Political Correctness” tends to be simply a catch-all phrase used by two groups: people on the Right who wish to paint the Left with a wide brush and people who are upset that the slurs that they prefer are no longer accepted in polite company.

My point is that there has been censorship and harrassment imposed by the Left and that, while noting that “PC” is not the monolithic, organized movement portrayed by some on the Right, the idiotic actions by some on the Left should not be ignored.

"My point is that there has been censorship and harrassment imposed by the Left and that, while noting that “PC” is not the monolithic, organized movement portrayed by some on the Right, the idiotic actions by some on the Left should not be ignored."

You will get no argument from me there, Tom. In none of what I have written on the subject, here or elsewhere, have I ever intended to exonerate, deny or ignore idiotic actions by anyone, including some on the left.

If the impression was otherwise, it might be because I do genuinely believe that the extent of left-generated idiocy is wildly overstated, and that individual cases of left-generated idiocy sometimes turn out to be something very different than what they are purported to be. Hence, a joke in a movie (see Jeffe’s post above) in which Eddie Murphy is offended by a mention of the “racist” Shakespeare, becomes evidence for the real-life prominence of this view. For all I know, the scene is very funny and would make me laugh too. But to invoke it as an example of what is really going on the left is bizarre.

(By way of response to Jeffe) As I understand them, the literary critics who are writing about Shakespearean drama from the perspective of contemporary views on (what we would call) racial difference, don’t want to condemn Shakespeare or bar him from the classroom. They are scholars of that period and would be out of a job if they urged such a policy! They know better than most that it would be anachronistic to call Shakespeare, or any of his contemporaries, a “racist,” since there was, at that time, no consistent concept of race to draw upon. From what I know about such scholarship (which admittedly isn’t a great deal) Shakespeare’s plays are usually seen as complex documents of what was going on at the time–not works to be reviled and forgotten.

Quite apart from this way of reading Shakespeare, there is the multiculturalist argument that schools should teach works from outside of the Western canon. I suppose that at the extreme end of this position what you have is a crude identity politics that might want to discount Shakespeare because he is a European male (though not because he is a “racist”). I do believe that there are people who are crudely identitarian; and they do make me wince and sometimes complain. But as in the Multiculturalism book I mentioned above, I believe that many writing seriously on this topic are very far from crude.

(More addressed to Tom again.) It often strikes me that though posters such as myself must constantly defend against the perception that the Left is loaded with PC censorers, crude identitarians, etc., that few (if any) representatives of such undesirable Left positions are apparent on this board. Perhaps I am missing something–I certainly don’t read every thread on this board. I don’t, of course, say that I observe no muddled thinking, or ungenerous behavior from self-styled left-leaning Dopers. Only that I don’t hear anyone shouting down Shakespeare’s racism, or demanding that “niggardly” be removed, or insisting on terms such as “vertically challenged.”

Hence, I have relatively few opportunities to criticize what I think is excessive on the left, inside and out of academia, though I have many thoughts on the subject, I assure you!

PCness is nothing more, or less, than a slimey, underhanded and cowardly way to infringe upon open and free public discourse.

PC is less “polite” as it is “practical.” Practical in the sense of surviving within fragmented and hostile social environments.

I think this was addressed:

This is where my quote came from. Since I was interested in the two incidents concerning the word “niggardly”, I didn’t want the name or subject of the entire book to cause a <hijack>. I notice that you found other references, which were more current. I hope you are satisfied as to the reliability of my sources.
Incidently, you make a good case concerning the term “politically correct”. However like most of the population I find it convenient to have such a term to generalize about dumb things the left does. Is there not such a term to be used for the dumb things the right does? Its a pity if there isn’t. :wink:

Thanks for that link kniz, which was interesting reading.

In answer to your question, no there’s isn’t a term to be used for the dumb things the right does–at least not a term that would signify to the population at large. I think within solidly left circles the term “rightwing” is sufficient to raise blood pressure :wink: , just as the term “left” might, within the same circles, stand for trustworthiness.

But I don’t see “rightwing” as quite so damaging and dangerous a term, since it’s too non-specific about what the winged person in question might actually be up to. By contrast, “political correctness” denotes a set of behaviors that range from annoying to pernicious that, IMO, the right is actively engaging in at least as much as the left (if not more).

And, by contrast, “political correctness” can be used to tarnish things that many people would accept on grounds of the basic civility required to live in a pluralistic liberal democracy, were not such an invidious term available to disparage it. As a result civility is itself demeaned–at our peril I think.

By way of interesting example. Here’s a link to this week’s magazine article from The New York Times, “Men Behaving Badly”. Its subject is fascinating. It’s about how an increasing number of men–straight men who, by and large, conform to masculine norms–are going to court in order to collect damages for harassment/discrimination experienced at the workplace at the hands of other straight men.

A lot of the article is to do with the shaky legal foundations of this phenomenon, since sexual harassment law wasn’t intended to address same-sex abuse (and doesn’t even do a very good job of helping women). Yet, in terms of the present debate, what’s really interesting I think, is how civility seems to be deterioriating with men forced to sue each other presumably because there are men (and doubtless some women) who seem to believe that respecting people’s dignity at the workplace is too “PC” an expectation for them to abide. (The word isn’t used as such; but I connect the phenomena nevertheless.)

Here’s an excerpt:

“Given the distribution of the work force today, it’s not surprising that some male-on-male sexual harassment takes place not in blue-collar strongholds but in the retail world and, in particular, in the fluorescently lit vastness of suburban superstores. Sometimes in these cases you find men who are offended by an almost perkily demeaning atmosphere, one in which the insults are sexual in tone mostly because there just aren’t that many insults to choose from in the English language. A lot of these harassers deride men by comparing them to women. Variations on ‘‘bitch,’’ which is so ubiquitous as to have lost its capacity to shock, if not its payload of contempt, abound. As in, ‘‘Come here, cashier bitch.’’ As in, ‘‘You talk like a bitch.’’ Even ‘‘sweetheart’’ can sound nasty if uttered in a certain tone of voice. Much of the rhetorical and gestural language of male-on-male sexual harassment is borrowed directly from adolescent rituals that have been around for decades: wedgies, pants-yanking, rabbit punches to various parts of the body. They all thrive on restlessness, a sense of unfair containment, the itch to make something – anything – happen. Sexual insults are the ones lying around and the easiest to pick up when you’re bored with cranky customers and their cranky kids and feel like messing with somebody’s mind, just getting a response out of somebody, even if it’s to something really dumb. But in that kind of atmosphere – minimum-wage miles-of-aisles tedium – men and women often aren’t treated all that differently.”

What the author means by the latter phrase–“men and women often aren’t treated all that differently”–is that men and women are equally subject to being taunted and abused by people who presumably feel this is the way to behave.

(The article I linked, like most magazine articles, is on the long side, and it will soon disappear and be archived. So if anyone ones to read it at leisure, you might want to e-mail the text to yourself for future reading.)