Portugal VS Netherlands-Russian referee Valentin Ivanov

It does, if he was giving them out with excessive frequency. I think his trigger-happy nature meant that simulation became the order of the day. The teams both (rightly) became convinced that the others were trying to get their players sent off, and temperatures rose. “Taking control” of a match does not simply mean spraying cards around like they’re going out of fashion. Certainly, sometimes a lot of yellows are warranted, and I think there would have been several in this match no matter who officiated. But I think that the referee committed himself to excessive harshness from the beginning, and after about 30 minutes that destroyed the flow of the game irreparably. Having set out his stall, he couldn’t dial it back without being inconsistent, and I genuinely think that set the tone of the match. Sure the players are culpable too, but neither of these teams are regarded as particularly dirty, and I believe the opening passages of the match showed what it could have been like, if left a bit more open.

We’ll just have to disagree, I think. The referee gave 5 yellows in the first half, 2 certainly deserved to Costinha. He gave 11 in the second half, six of which came in a five minte span (73 ’ - 78’) when the players clearly weren’t getting it.

I couldnt agree more. As a rugby fan who takes a moderate interest in soccer, the one thing that constantly amazes me is the players’ absolute lack of respect for refs. Swarming around him, yelling in his face, touching him?!?!?! In rugby if you laid a hand on a ref you’d be out for a month, no questions. The ref blows his whistle, makes his decision, the captain queries it if he feels the need, the rest of the players get back to their places and get on with the match.

Seriously, what’s so hard about that FIFA?

Agree totally with Gangster Octopus- what else could the ref do but issue cards? Normally, the first red comes out, the players fall in line. The logic of “oh the players saw the ref did not have control and as a result began a string of childish and dangerous play as a result” is asinine. This isn’t first grade, where students will go nuts if the have a substitute teacher who is not in control- these are supposed to be grown ups. Ronaldo getting kicked in the upper thigh is the refs fault? The Dutch player who fell over ten seconds after a minor head butt is the refs fault? And what about the headbutt itself? FIFA should review the tape and issue more suspensions. And is it rule, you have to be a diver to play striker for the Netherlands? Robben, Van Persie and Kuyt fall on ever play- thankfully we were spared Van Nistelrooy’s antics, even though he did deserve to play.

I’m sorry; we we watching the same match? On a number of occasions, he gave the wrong person a card! He had no control of the players. The best thing he could have done is at half time he should have changed places with one of the linesmen.

Evidentally Fifa agrees with you

The fact that the first 5 matches or so would end up abandoned because there’d be three players left on the pitch. It’d be hilarious. Ah well, a man can dream. :slight_smile:

I also think sin-binning might not be a bad addition to the game (and I generally hate modifications of the sport); that’d allow referees to deal with relatively minor transgressions in a manner that isn’t as permanent or as catastrophic to one side as a red card. Certainly I think a bit of sin-binning would be great for the sort of back-chat and blatant attempts to influence the ref that we’ve seen (players demanding red cards? Filth!). But yeah, I don’t see that it can be all that difficult to set the ref up as considerably more untouchable, and it’d decrease the chance of refs feeling the need to “stamp their authority” on a game with cards.

However, I do feel that the awarding of penalties in rugby also helps the refs out in that sport; the knowledge that even a relatively minor transgression in one’s own half can result in conceding 3 points helps keep players in line to a large extent, while in football the danger areas for free kicks/penalties are much smaller, and turnover of possession is less of a blow. Furthermore, simulation is almost entirely absent from rugby, because it’s basically impossible (after all, the whole point is to make the attackers fall over). So it’s not just a matter of discipline; football is in some ways much harder to referee.

I do not think you can take seriously anything Blatter says. He has been accused of corruption so many times.

He’s under investigation, along with the former FIFA president, by the Swiss authorities over payments recieved from the now bankrupt ISL. He’s also implicated in vote fraud in his presidential election. He got a Trinidadian FIFA delegate to vote for him using the Haitian delegate’s ballot paper. He’s also been at war with The FA for years, and is itching to exclude English clubs and the national team from international competition, this time over reducing the Premiership to 18 teams (something a lot of UEFA member leagues are against) and the FA’s refusal to drop its disciplinary appeals process.

Let’s not forget his enlightened thoughts on what women ought to be wearing during their games:

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story?id=288684&cc=5901

Well he seems to be quite the charmer. I guess a reprimand from Blatter doesn’t hold much water.

Well, no, I have consistently praised the referee’s performance in this nasty match, starting with a post I made at the immediate conclusion of the game. All the early cautions were spot on, with the exception of Boulahrouz’s, which should have been red. The only yellow I can recall which was dubious was Deco’s first.

As for football allowing itself to have sustained a culture in which players swear at officials, swarm around them, etc., the remedies are there: move the free kick 10 yards forward, book the players, etc. But, just as football is unwilling to adopt technology, as has been done so successfully by rugby (both codes, starting with League), cricket and tennis (to name a few sports), so it buries its head in the sand over player discipline issues.

I would like to see a mandatory substitution card.

As a player, I agree that too many yellows can, paradoxically, increase the level of violence. The players will feel that since cards are basically flying randomly, it doesn’t really matter whether they’re being careful. Plus there’s a little extra anger from undeserved cards to help push players onto the chippy/dangerous side.

That said, I agree that FIFA has the spine of a jellyfish, and these referees are in a tough situation.

As an example of how to referee better, I’ll just share a moment (I can’t remember which game, unfortunately). As players were jockeying for position before a corner kick, the ref blew the whistle, came towards the box, and using clear gestures told the players (clearly addressing both teams) to keep their arms down to their sides. He then let the kick go on. Didn’t even need to call a foul, but showed he was paying attention and got the players to clean it up a bit.

Does anyone else see a parallel to the officiating situation in the NHL ? The NHL finally stuck with their plan to crack down on obstruction penalties. By the 2nd half of the season and all through the playoff, the players knew that they would not get away with marginal penalties. I think FIFA is also, finally, calling the rules as they are intended.

  • any manner of time-wasting is a yellow card (including Deco picking up the ball).
  • goalie taking too long on a goal kick -> yellow card.
  • any player in the wall advancing before the free kick -> yellow card.

These additional yellow cards is the reason that there have been a record number of yellow and red cards (remember, the record number of “red” cards are mostly the result of 2 yellows) - it is not due to an increase in rough play. FIFA has to make the officials stick to these standards until the players get the message, and then, once they do, the game (much like the NHL this past season), will see a return of the style of game where the skilled players can shine.

The hardest part of the game for the officials to control is diving/faking injuries. FIFA has tried to improve this by giving the assistant referees more freedom to make calls but clearly this is not enough. Why not take another suggestion from the NHL and have 2 referees on the field ? I think 2 refs on the field would ensure that one of them is in a proper position to decide if the play was a foul or a dive. Also, I like the idea of the sin-bin (taken again from hockey :-). Give a player a 5-min penalty for any ‘bad behaviour’ fouls (diving, time wasting) and keep the yellow/red cards for late tackles, rough play, etc.

Actually, I woiuld have the following heirarchy of fouls:

  • free kick
  • 5 min penalty and free kick
  • yellow card (incl, 5 min penalty)
  • red card (no need for 5 min penalty since team is playing short the rest of the game).

Finally, one last thought, I’ve been wondering why FIFA doesn’t eliminate the off-side rule in order to increase scoring ?