Post Sex Offenders on the Internet?

From the Asbury Park Press

I’m generally not much of a civil libertarian, and am more of a law and order type, but I voted against this amendment in the recent election. I’m not 100% sure of what is the right thing to do, but have several concerns. (I’m leaving out legal/constitutional issues, which can be decided by the courts, and focusing more on the moral/right-thing-to-do aspects).

  1. There are many different levels of harm that can come out of a sex offender’s actions. Some are less harmful than others. Whereas this bill does divide offenders into three groups, it does so based on risk of recidivism, not on harm inflicted. However, in the public eye, all these offenders tend to be lumped into one category.

  2. In any event, people can sometimes overreact and administer vigilante justice to sex offenders (or people who they think are - there was a famous case of mistaken identity a while back).

  3. It makes it alot harder for the offender to get back into society. In particular, the innocent family of the offender may suffer the most, as they will be shunned by the community for the crimes of their relative.

  4. In the case of people convicted prior to this law, they may have pleaded guilty to crimes that they were not (fully) guilty of, not anticipating that the consequence would be that they would be branded as perverts for life over the internet.

OTOH, I am aware that these types of crimes have a very high level of recidivism. I wonder if it would be a good compromise to post only those who have actually been given one chance and failed.

What do the teeming millions think?

I think Megan’s Law has its points, but goes way overboard and tramples on some serious civil rights issues. Obviously, the voting public and the law thinks otherwise, so who am I to say…

Esprix

This was discussed recently, I think. As well as your own points, one other that came out was that it encourages people to sleep soundly believing that they’ve warned their kids who to stay away from. In the event, it turns the offenders into scapegoats for any crimes, lulling people into a false sense of security.

In Britain recently a tabloid newspaper published photos of sex offenders in an attempt to persuade the government to adopt Megan’s Law here. It resulted in riots in various housing estates where offenders were identified as living, as well as a number of vicious attacks on completely innocent people. One (female) doctor in Wales also had her house vandalised by local yobs. They’d misread “paedophile” for “paediatrician”. I don’t have much faith in the vocal minority’s ability to use such information wisely.

I’m kinda interested in what you mean by the first two sentences of this paragraph. I’m always reluctant to support these kind of measures. generally because of the definition of sex offender being loosly defined. IAW, I wouldn’t want some 16y/o kid who got cught having sex withhis 16 y/o girlfriend to have to suffer under such a law.

**

More reason not to do it. Then there’s that whole debt tosociety thing.

**

Another equally valid reason in my eye not to do it. The whole concept to me is similar to branding.

**

Is the law applied retroactively for this? How far back? Is there a way to be removed from the listing?

**

I think I could agree based on recividism. For a first offese though, Im not so sure. The biggest problem I see though is balancing childrens safety and the ex-cons right to get on with his life.

What scares me the most about these abuse laws (I’ll get to Megan’s Laws in a second) is their potential for misuse. It’s not hard to see how someone with a grudge or in the midst of a bitter divorce can use them to really do damage to the opposing party, directly or indirectly. This happened to a friend of mine, who was investigated for sexually abusing his son during a messy and bloody divorce. His soon-to-be ex-wife filed the charges as a way to “get back” at him. He was forced to pay several thousand dollars in attorney’s fees before the charges were dropped.

Megan’s Laws further extend the damage by announcing to the world that the accused person is a registered sex offender, whether the person is actually guilty or not. Let me give you an example.

Esprix is accused by a neighbor of molesting his son. (Hey, we all know gays are child molesters, right? :rolleyes: ) In order to avoid the embarrassment of a public trial, he cops to a lesser offense. Even though he is not guilty of any crime, he is still listed as a RSO. ALL of his neighbors now know that he is a child molester, as does his employer, and the rest of the town. He can’t move without permission of his parole officer, and is forced to accept whatever happens.

Although these laws have vox populi, vox dei (the voice of the people is the voice of God) behind them, there are few good things about Megan’s Laws. They’re unnecessarily intrusive, they invite ostracism and violence against possibly innocent people, and they divert attention away from people who could really be molesters. But I guess the devil you know is better than the hundred you don’t.

Robin

e.g. a guy who exposed himself to a child is not inflicting damage at nearly the same level as someone who had actual sex with the child. Not that I would recommend either one, but it would be a mistake to equate the two.

And this is a bad thing because…?

Weigh this effect on the rapist/molester with the effect on the next person they rape.

And I would be open to letting the person choose to stay in jail for the rest of their life if they feared living in public.

I like the branding idea as well. I just think we would have trouble getting it past the NJ Superior Court.

Emotionally I want it to be retroactive, but intellectually I think ex post facto laws are more harmfull to society than sex offenders.

That doesn’t mean we can’t start today though…

I see no problem here. Of course I do not see an intrinsic right for a rapist/molestor to “get on with their life.”

Tort reform is a real, but seperate issue.

YOU see them an “unnecessarily obtrusive,” but I bet the next victim of that rapist is going to understand what obtrusive means a lot more than the registered rapist.

And what is all this “possibly innocent” garbage in this thread? I though we were talking about CONVICTED offenders. If we don’t trust our system to convict the guilty, then why even bother putting people in jail?
If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

I support a “tiered” system. I don’t think a 19 year old sleeping with their 17 yr. old girlfriend is the same as a back alley rape of a perfect stranger.

There is a simpler solution to this.

If a person is not to be trusted in society, then lock him up for life. Change the laws so that molestors NEVER get out. Or they could always just not rape and molest.

I personally think it’s a bad idea. Recently in England a cheao gutter tabloid called the News of The World ran a section for about 2 weeks with photographs of registered paedophiles and personal information. The result was chaos. 5 people were attacked by vigilantes and only one of them was a paedophile. There was even a case of a paediatrician being attacked.

I personally don’t see what’s wrong with life imprisonment.

Here’s a link to an article from the Guardian about the News of the World stunt if you want to know more.

This should work

http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/child/story/0.7369,350566.00.html

Preview is my friend…preview is my friend…

http://www.guardianunlimited.co.uk/child/story/0.7369.350566.00.html

Freedom2 wrote:

Freedom2:

Replace “sex offender” with “gun owner”, and see if you still feel the same way.

ummm you’re not serious are you? Maybe it’s just cause I’m tired but I’ve got a problem with your logic here. The majority of the public opposes equal rights for gays, as does the law, this has never stopped you from speaking out.

This law is not intended to be a punishment (and is not subject to the limitations applied to punishments, such as retroactive application) - it is intended to be a safety help for neighborhood kids.

The intended purpose of the judicial system is for people to pay their debt to society and than return to live a productive life. It is unfortunate if this is prevented from happening. It particular, i would note again that the families of such offenders have done nothing wrong at all, and their suffering will be added to by this law.

Silly boy - you read too much into my brevity. I do have to work sometimes at work, you know… :wink: Just throwing the two sides of the coin in as the first post to help the OP get rolling (i.e., yeah, I don’t like 'em, but the general public does - who’s right?).

Thirty lashes for you for knowing me well enough to know me better than that but saying you didn’t anyway.

Esprix

I guess I can actually have some real input on this topic. I’ve got a good friend who has been in jail for having sex with a 15 yearold girl. Not a smart move of course, but that’s the way it works.

I’ve known him for 12 years or so and I know that “little girls” are not what he goes after, I guess he liked this one for whatever reason. Actually he usually liked the older women, but that’s not the point. The point is that now he will have to register even though he served his time and I don’t think he’s gonna do it again. Now though everywhere he knows the people around him are gonna know he is some sort of pervert.

I have a serious problem with this as I can’t see how it’s gonna help anyone. Here in Frederick, MD we had some guy only a few weeks ago get out of prison for some sex charges a few days later he kills, so they say, an 8 year old boy. No Megan’s Law helped in that case.

If we’re gonna do such laws why not have them for murders and robbers as well. Hell why we’re at it why not speeding tickets so I know what idiot to stay away from on the road. I live in a neibourhood with loads of kids and very few people go the speed limit and none know what a stop sign is.

I think that instead of these laws the real sickos, I’m talking about people who have sex with real young kids, should just stay in jail. People like my buddy, who knows he really did something stupid, really don’t need people knowing all about his sex life. Hell they might as well have the cops watch everyone and if someone gets a blowjob they should just add them to the list of sex offenders too.

Once again, we have people here making the statement that sex offenders have a higher than average recidivism rate.

Try proving that. I’ll help you out - you can’t because it’s not true NOT true. (I’ve done it, spent more time than I care to on it. all info that’s out there says the reverse is true)

I participated in all of those other threads, and it tires me out.

  1. I am not ‘in favor of’ child molesters.

  2. I am not in favor of Megan’s laws, either.

My reasons:
Any attempt at these have been rampant with wrong information. Such wrong information can have serious, fatal, horrible consequences, not only for the person wrongfully identified, but their neighbors, family etc, AND for the people wrongfully omited.

Think about your average day. How many people do you come into contact with, even momentarily (standing in line at the bank for instance). Now, out of those people, how many of them do you know their name/address etc?

Child molestations happen basically two ways - either a snatch and grab or some one who is known to the child or family. In the former case, Megan’s laws will do nothing to prevent this scenario.

In the later case? if they haven’t been convicted yet, no, you wouldn’t know. But before I get into the rest of it, let me explain what I think you ** should** do.

To me, the best way to protect your child from being a victim is to make them a bad victim. Rules are: do not go anywhere unless mom/dad/caregiver knows about it first. If anyone ** ever** tells you to keep something a secret from mom/dad/caregiver tell right away. If anyone ever makes you feel icky, tell. If anyone ever gives you presents, wants to take your picture, tell.

Now, what this does is allow the parent to make the decisions about who/what is appropriate. Don’t use terms like “stranger” or “grown up”. Because, frankly, it might not be a stranger or a grown up.

Now, for the rest of the picture of why I don’t think these things work. In the first place, how often are you going to check it? daily? weekly? monthly? hoping, of course, that the info is accurate. And, again, all you’d find out is addresses, which won’t help you at all at the store, the park, etc. How many people visit your neighborhood? delivery folk, visitors for neighbors etc. So you ** won’t ** and can’t know about everybody. But by enacting these laws, you might have some accurate info about some people. Now what? if you’ve already been a vigilant parent, and taught your child the rules above, your child is not a good victim for the seducer. You want to tell your kid specifically not to go there with that guy? well, what the child may hear is ‘pretty much everybody else is ok’.

I’m also reminded of a scene I once saw. I work with ex offenders, have for many years. I was at a local shopping center, and I saw one of my folks, ‘shopping’ at a store. Now, this woman had a loooooooooong history of shop lifting, and in fact, had been arrested at that store before. A few moments later, in walks another lady I knew. they passed each other as if they were strangers. They weren’t. So, while all the store personell were busy watching Gerri, Marsha was wandering around all innocent (I went up to each and told them to take a hike). So, while you’re busy protecting your child against the guy across the street that you know (or according to this site) has a history, the other guy you weren’t watching has a clear shot.

In short (too late, I know), lots of money that could be better spent on treatment programs (that have been shown to work - if you’re going to have them out in the first place), don’t really make any child safer, and may lull parents into a false sense of security that they’ve done something, while possibly setting the kids up to be hurt by other folks.

I usually like and understand your points…

But what the heck are you talking about?

There is no equality between those two labels. This is not exchanging the word “black” for “Jew.” This is talking about a capital murder case, deciding on a verdict, and then some guy goes…

WAIT!!!

Replace “murderer” with “priest”. We can’t allow this punishment to happen.

I’m a little put off that you would compare a right protected in the Bill of Rights to the lowest form of criminal.

What’s your point?

And for those of you who don’t like the registration, let’s just leave them in jail FOREVER. I guess this point is more a debate about the severity of the crime compared to others, but that is where I stand.

This is not tort reform. This is abusing laws designed to protect society that are on the books in most states. I do think there should be a penalty for people who falsely report abuse. Unfortunately, there seems to be no way to do that that would not have a chilling effect on reporting real abuse.

Obviously, then, you believe that people who are convicted of crimes have actually done them. My friend had one foot in the jail cell when it was discovered that his wife had filed a false report of abuse. There are many, many people in the prison system who were forced to accept guilt because a copped plea was a hell of a lot better than taking a chance with a jury. And when you consider that states have almost unlimited resources to pursue cases, while most defendants have few or no resources to refute the state, it’s no wonder possible innocence has to weigh in as a factor.

Freedom2, you deride the rights criminals have, yet I bet you’d be the first one grateful for their existence if you or someone you know is arrested and charged with a crime.

Robin

wring,

I’m not an expert on the effects of Megan’s law, but I would take issue with your post in two specific aspects:

  1. Regarding the recidivism issue, I’ve seen elsewhere that it is high, but cannot at this moment prove anything. But the idea is commonsensical. A person who steals is usually not motivated by an unusual urge to steal. They have made a bad choice. If they are caught before they have settled into a life of crime, they have a good chance of redirecting their life in a more positive direction. A person who served jail time for robbery 10 years ago, but has led a productive life ever since, is likely no different (at this point) than someone who has never stolen anything at all. By contrast, a person who molests a child is clearly possessed of an unnatural urge to do so, that most people don’t share. It may be that it is possible to treat such people (most treatments that aim to change people’s nature of any type have uneven success) but barring a successful treatment, it is likely that this person will go through his entire life with these urges inside him. He may succeed in suppressing them and he may not, but they will probably always be there (to some extent). It follows that such a person has an increased likelihood of recidivism.

As I mentioned before, I can’t (at this point) prove that this is true, and don’t intend to do so (you may be right, for all I know), but unless this logic is responded to, it makes sense to accept this fact.

  1. Regarding the purpose (and effectiveness) of Megan’s law. I would imagine that the intended purpose is not to have people periodically check the local listings for any possible sex offenders. This is not very practical, as you suggest. I would think the purpose is for when a parent is slightly nervous or uneasy about someone. Say that there is someone in the neighborhood who hangs around with little kids alot. This person is most likely just a great person who loves kids. But a parent might be uneasy about the possibility that the guy is really some sort of perv. With Megan’s law, it could be checked up.

This seems to be of practical benefit. My (tentative) opposition is only to advertising that information all over the place (as in on the net).