I have a lot of family members and acquaintances who can be defined as #1 or #2.
The Temporarily Poor is defined as a person who has always (for the most part) had their shit together but has encountered rough times. Maybe they lost their job. Or had legal problems. Or unforeseen medical bills. My heart goes out to these people, and I am willing to help them.
Unfortunately, the overwhelming majority of “poor” people I know are Chronically Poor. These people *cannot * be helped. They are, in essence, poor by choice. They keep making the same stupid decisions over and over. Yet they are completely blind as to the reason why they’re poor; they blame their spouse, ex wife/husband, employer, government, children, parents, etc. Unbeknownst to them, the *real * reason they’re poor is because they’re irresponsible, immature, stupid, foolish, and/or lazy. These are also the people that always seem to have money for beer, cigarettes, cable TV, Tivo, video games, takeout food and computers, yet *never * have enough money for transportation, medical bills, mortgage, and schooling.
These are the people (such as myself) who have graduated college into a terrible economy. Most if not all jobs are filled by those with years of experience who were laid off from GM, Ford, etc. The only opportunities that are available are McJobs, even if you have a degree. This group would very much like to not be poor, and haven’t made any wrong decisions, but just can’t get over the hump of having no experience in a state with 8% unemployment.
I agree with you on the “two kinds of poor” but I’m not convinced that the Chronically Poor cannot be helped. I have been a CP, currently exacerbated with some exceptionally bad luck. The thing is when you didn’t plan for the future, the rough times make the dirt poverty come on that much quicker and with greater intensity. But hitting rock bottom or coming damn close to it is an eye-opening experience for some. I am finally coming to the realization that not only do I want to turn my life around, I still have family (not poor or financially irresponsible) that are willing to teach me and force me to change my habits and financial attitude to change my financial future.
We aren’t all dumb or ignorant of what we’re doing wrong. We just need the impetus to stop the train and put it on a positive track. Some of us do know that the economic downturn and bad luck are not solely responsible for our woes, although they may intensify the poverty and lack of options. We know we’ve been doing it wrong and if we ever hope to live better, it’s time to stop putting out flares and start rehabilitating the arsonist. Only time will tell if we have the mettle to rise above the ashes, but at least we know opportunity for personal growth when we see it and have the wherewithal to accept the help offered. No matter how degrading it may feel, it’s got nothing on the viciousness of Chronic Poverty.
I’m in Michigan, too, and I’ve had a couple of job-hunt threads on the boards here. I graduated uni in 05 and there was nothing. I’d send out 75 resumes and not hear a peep. I’d have my mom hound me about sending more resumes out but I had already sent resumes to every job that I could conceivably do; there were no more listings, so I had to wait at least a week (usually two).
I still thank my stars that a fellow doper let me know about an internship at his job. I interviewed… and ended up getting a real full time job, two years after graduating (I’d scraped by with part time retail and bank teller jobs). After having interview after interview for entry level positions where they ended up hiring people with 10-15 years experience*, I almost cried when I got the job offer.
Even now, I still can’t get over this ‘having money’ thing. I’m not rollin’ in it or anything, but I can’t bring myself to buy myself just about anything because I’m so used to thinking, “I don’t have the money for that”. Even if I do, it doesn’t feel like it and I think, “what if I lose my job and need that money?”
There’s enough people out of work here; if they can hire someone with that much experience and pay them entry level wages, why not?
Funny, I faced that exact same problem almost 25 years ago in the Detroit area.
It has a lot to do with why I moved to Chicago.
Oh, and by the way - never let anyone tell you that a part-time job, entry-level job, temporary job, or what have you isn’t a real job. It’s bad for your self-confidence and self-image. Do you do work? Yes? You get paid, yes? It’s a real job. It may not be a real wonderful job, but it’s a real job.
That’s another sucky thing about poverty - people denigrate your employment, among other things.
I wouldn’t call that being “poor”, though, just stupid and having the wrong priorities.
As for “chronic poor”, though, I’m hoping you’re referring to the present, and not say, 60 years ago or so. (“Back in MY day…”)
Even in the forties-fifties, you still had some people who WERE pretty much chronically poor.
It sucks in all the ways Broomstick said in her OP. I was turned down for aide when I first got laid off (way back in the late 80s), because I was neither a minority nor an alcoholic or drug addict. The programs I was trying to get into (for secondary education for one), did not accept anyone who was not a minority, or an addict of some sort. Six months after I was laid off, I was finally “poor enough” to be considered for a very small window of opportunity for a related secondary education and training type program.
Oddly, one of the things that was, for me, the hardest to deal with about being very poor, was the inability to purchase decent cleaning supplies and personal bathing items. During my poverty stricken years, we had to make do with the giant economy sized bottle of dish detergent (and then water it down a lot to make it last). It had to serve for every cleaning need. Washing dishes, bath time and shampoo (yup, ICK) and all other cleaning needs from floors to countertops.
I am constantly buying the nicest smelling cleaning supplies, fabric softeners and shampoos and get a subconscious and slightly panicky feel if I get low on anything.
Also, poverty is exhausting, emotionally, psychologically, and physically. The lack of sleep I had to endure then still affects me to this day During my poverty days I was trying to go to school, I worked three part time jobs, had a pre-teen and a new baby. I probably averaged an hour or two of sleep a night for about 2 years.
I now guard my right to sleep like a pit bull guards a junk yard. The whole experience left a lasting scar that’s for sure.
I knew I was broke when I “splurged” on discounted frozen shrimp and rice–my intention being to make shrimp fried rice, which is one of my favorite dishes–and it turned into a wet, gooey, bad-shrimpy, disgusting pile of ickiness.
And I still ate it. Because I had no choice.
I guess you could argue that if you have the money to “splurge” on cheap shrimp and rice that you don’t qualify as poverty-stricken…but when you fuck up your food to the point that it’s pretty much inedible, and the smell/sight of it kinda makes you want to throw up, and you STILL EAT IT, I think you’ve tasted poverty.
It sucks major ass. I feel for you, Broomstick.
I have never eaten shrimp fried rice since then. And fuck anybody who says I had that shit coming to me.
I started writing up a list of things in my life (with a well-paying job) versus that of one of my cousins, who works part-time at Target, and I can’t list it here because you’d all want to reach through the internet and strangle me, but man, the deck is really stacked against the poor and under- or unemployed. So, here’s a summary, with details removed:
Health care, health care, health care, lower taxes, lower costs, more/easier job offers and time (as in less waiting for things and less commuting). Also, I can’t provide cites, but: fewer emergencies, more hope. And health care.
Well, I can thank whatever deities that may be that, during our two very long years of poverty, at least there were no food allergies to deal with! But it still sucked. I can also be grateful that before the poverty struck, the state of Maryland introduced it’s Children’s Health Insurance Program, so even though neither my hubby nor I had any health coverage at all, the kids had awesome insurance. That’s a really good thing, because it was during that time that our oldest daughter was diagnosed bipolar/borderline personality/possibly schizophrenic, and damn those drugs are expensive! If it weren’t for the CHIP, no way we’d have been able to afford them!
We utilized the food pantries and the clothing pantries. We applied for utility assistance. We waited for Banquet Pot Pies to go on sale, because they had coupons on them for free bowling, so not only did we get cheap food out of them, but then we were able to take the kids out bowling because it was a form of entertainment we could afford. I got spermacidal birth control free at the health department, which meant that recreational sex was also affordable!
And you’re the only one who seems to have a problem with what I wrote, so what is your point?
Yeah, poverty sucks, I agree. I was poor up until I was 32 and never made much more in that time period than $10 an hour since I had left home at 17. Luckily, I didn’t need much back then to support myself. But, there was no give, no slack, I would have been out on the street if I missed paycheck. It was tough, but I didn’t realize until later how close at times I was to living on the street.
Poverty sucks because everyone feels entitled to question your every purchase - seriously, WTF? I went to the store today, bought all the cheap-from-scratch stuff, fruit on sale, etc. etc. The one splurge was my husband’s favorite brand of pop which, I add, was also on sale.
Sure enough, some asshole had to comment - “I thought you were broke. How can you afford to buy POP? Huh? Huh? If you’re really broke you should just drink water.”
OK… yes, I get it - we’re poor, we’re supposed to suffer. No luxuries whatsoever, right, got it, even if after constant scrimping we actually CAN fit something (on sale) into the budget.
It fucking pisses me off that someone can just fucking pass judgment on someone else in that manner when they can’t possibly know all the details of their circumstances.
Frankly, I’m surprised this person didn’t give me hell for driving to the store - all that expensive gas, you know? Oh wait - it’s OK for them to drive an Canyonero SuperGasSucker around and bitch about themselves being broke but god forbid someone with money troubles buy a fucking case of soda. :roll:
