Pray+rain= Proof of God?

[Tenebras]

@lekatt

Because this is the one thing all religions agree upon, and it is what I experienced when in the presence of God.

Actually, it’s the one thing that religions you classify as true religions agree on:

@lekatt

The only truth about God is: God is Love. All major religions recognize this, it is when religions go further than this contradictions appear.

You might just as well have said “The only truth about God is: God loves tithing. All major religions recognize this, it is when religions go further than this contradictions appear.” Mormons have tithing, the Scientologists have tithing, I seem to recall that the more “mainstream” Christians used to have it, too. Of course, nowadays they’ve gone beyond the basic tenet of God (that he really likes it when you give money to the church) and so have all split and schismed and appear to be different.

For the more bloody minded in the audience, we could also go with “The only truth about God is: God demands human sacrifice. All major religions recognize this, it is when religions go further than this contradictions appear.” Human sacrifice is what ties us together as a species. Throughout history major religions have incorporated human sacrifice. The Babylonians did it, the Etruscans and then the Romans did it. Druids did it. (It’s pretty much the only thing we know about them. They killed people. Oh, and also quite big on henges.) The God of Abraham just wanted to be sure people would do it, if he wanted them to. The God of the Christians did it, but just once and it was a different time then and he didn’t inhale. Polynesians? Check. The Incans did it. (And poor Xander almost paid the price for their sisn.) Kali and whatever the Mayan god’s name was had this thing where every time somebody was sacrificed in their name they got 10 frequent flier miles. Those two were later spotted in Otahiti sipping mai tais on the beach while getting a pedicure.

I don’t believe that all (or even most) major religions have had the whole “God/love” thing going on. It looks more like a sampling error due to the current prevalence of disinterested beard-in-the-sky gods that we seem to have recently. Was the fundamental tenet of the Babylonian pantheon love? The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Jews, Muslims, Hindus? Heck, was a fundamental part of those religions that somebody up there wants you to be warm and fuzzy?

This is the part where you respond that all the religions I listed aren’t real religions because they aren’t all about the love. That’s cool, but you’re arguing your way around a circle: “God is love => all true religion is about experiencing divine love => religions not about divine love aren’t real religions => the defining characteristic of religion is love => God is love”

But, because I like the cut of your jib, I’ll keep praying every morning for the sun to come up. I’d hate to ruin your picnic by plunging the Earth into eternal darkness. I don’t ask for any kind of fee or retainer for this, but tips are appreciated. I take cash but I also have PayPal.

[Sophistry_and_Illusion]

@Tenebras

This is the part where you respond that all the religions I listed aren’t real religions because they aren’t all about the love. That’s cool, but you’re arguing your way around a circle: “God is love => all true religion is about experiencing divine love => religions not about divine love aren’t real religions => the defining characteristic of religion is love => God is love”

Yes, there’s a “No true Scotsman” argument lurking in there somewhere.

And I’ve been meaning to ask whether the goddess Kali is love. Seems a bit of a stretch.

[lekatt]

@wisernow

What?

Yes.

[lekatt]

@vivalostwages

http://www.lolcats.com/

Cute, I love cats.

[lekatt]

@Kalhoun

You experienced love or you experienced god telling you he is love?

Communication from/to spirit is through thought, as soon as I thought of a question, the answer was there. In God presence I felt Love, no need to talk about it. It was total caring, compassion, concern, I knew I was loved beyond anything I did, or said. I also knew I was not special, God loves everyone the same.

[lekatt]

@Tenebras

Actually, it’s the one thing that religions you classify as true religions agree on:

You might just as well have said “The only truth about God is: God loves tithing. All major religions recognize this, it is when religions go further than this contradictions appear.” Mormons have tithing, the Scientologists have tithing, I seem to recall that the more “mainstream” Christians used to have it, too. Of course, nowadays they’ve gone beyond the basic tenet of God (that he really likes it when you give money to the church) and so have all split and schismed and appear to be different.

For the more bloody minded in the audience, we could also go with “The only truth about God is: God demands human sacrifice. All major religions recognize this, it is when religions go further than this contradictions appear.” Human sacrifice is what ties us together as a species. Throughout history major religions have incorporated human sacrifice. The Babylonians did it, the Etruscans and then the Romans did it. Druids did it. (It’s pretty much the only thing we know about them. They killed people. Oh, and also quite big on henges.) The God of Abraham just wanted to be sure people would do it, if he wanted them to. The God of the Christians did it, but just once and it was a different time then and he didn’t inhale. Polynesians? Check. The Incans did it. (And poor Xander almost paid the price for their sisn.) Kali and whatever the Mayan god’s name was had this thing where every time somebody was sacrificed in their name they got 10 frequent flier miles. Those two were later spotted in Otahiti sipping mai tais on the beach while getting a pedicure.

I don’t believe that all (or even most) major religions have had the whole “God/love” thing going on. It looks more like a sampling error due to the current prevalence of disinterested beard-in-the-sky gods that we seem to have recently. Was the fundamental tenet of the Babylonian pantheon love? The Egyptians, Greeks, Romans, Norse, Jews, Muslims, Hindus? Heck, was a fundamental part of those religions that somebody up there wants you to be warm and fuzzy?

This is the part where you respond that all the religions I listed aren’t real religions because they aren’t all about the love. That’s cool, but you’re arguing your way around a circle: “God is love => all true religion is about experiencing divine love => religions not about divine love aren’t real religions => the defining characteristic of religion is love => God is love”

But, because I like the cut of your jib, I’ll keep praying every morning for the sun to come up. I’d hate to ruin your picnic by plunging the Earth into eternal darkness. I don’t ask for any kind of fee or retainer for this, but tips are appreciated. I take cash but I also have PayPal.

“Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people’s suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal.” The Dalai Lama

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

[42fish]

@lekatt

“Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people’s suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal.” The Dalai Lama

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

Replacing the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy with the ‘Argument from authority’ fallacy isn’t exactly an improvement.

[Kalhoun]

@lekatt

Communication from/to spirit is through thought, as soon as I thought of a question, the answer was there. In God presence I felt Love, no need to talk about it. It was total caring, compassion, concern, I knew I was loved beyond anything I did, or said. I also knew I was not special, God loves everyone the same.

So…the answer just kinda showed up. God didn’t actually SPEAK to you. You just asked questions (pondered some ideas) and came up with mental responses that felt good to you. The inspiration could have actually come from anywhere.

Plenty of people say god speaks to them. Show me a god who speaks to the guy next to me *loud enough so I can hear it * and I’ll start paying closer attention.

[lekatt]

@Kalhoun

So…the answer just kinda showed up. God didn’t actually SPEAK to you. You just asked questions (pondered some ideas) and came up with mental responses that felt good to you. The inspiration could have actually come from anywhere.

Plenty of people say god speaks to them. Show me a god who speaks to the guy next to me *loud enough so I can hear it * and I’ll start paying closer attention.

Dream on, my friend, dream on.

[Czarcasm]

@lekatt

Dream on, my friend, dream on.

So that’s your secret. Actually, that clears up quite a bit about your beliefs.

[lekatt]

@Czarcasm

So that’s your secret. Actually, that clears up quite a bit about your beliefs.

The time will come to everyone when they also will “hear” God talk to them. When your time comes then you can judge for yourself the realness of it.

[wisernow]

@lekatt

The time will come to everyone when they also will “hear” God talk to them. When your time comes then you can judge for yourself the realness of it.

I can’t understand, why the hell do you even start posting in threads connected to any discussion on religion when at the end this is all you can say?? Do you have any idea how irritating such attitude and behaviour can be?

[Sophistry_and_Illusion]

@wisernow

I can’t understand, why the hell do you even start posting in threads connected to any discussion on religion when at the end this is all you can say?? Do you have any idea how irritating such attitude and behaviour can be?

Lord knows he’s been told enough times. “My post is my cite” is bad enough; “My ineffable mystical vision is my cite” is over the edge.

[lekatt]

@wisernow

I can’t understand, why the hell do you even start posting in threads connected to any discussion on religion when at the end this is all you can say?? Do you have any idea how irritating such attitude and behaviour can be?

And what was I supposed to say? I was told my experience (or implied) was just a dream or delusion, that has happened many times by those who are not qualified to judge my personal experience. Even after I have presented evidence by researchers that near death experiences are real and show consciousness continues to live after the death of the brain and body. So do I say you are wrong, and they say I’m wrong ad infinitum. Now the only way one that thinks millions of people are lying or mistaken can be shown evidence is for them to have the experience, right. Do you have any idea how irritating a constant belittling attitude and behaviour can be?

[lekatt]

@Sophistry and Illusion

Lord knows he’s been told enough times. “My post is my cite” is bad enough; “My ineffable mystical vision is my cite” is over the edge.

I don’t know where you have been, but I have never said anything like you attribute to me. You are not telling the truth and you know it.

[Sophistry_and_Illusion]

@lekatt

I don’t know where you have been, but I have never said anything like you attribute to me. You are not telling the truth and you know it.

As far as what you post, your evidence for your belief in God consists primarily in some religious experience of some sort, as far as I can tell (with some secondary backup from some poorly-understood cherry picked theistic pseudo-scientists).

[Revenant_Threshold]

@lekatt

Because this is the one thing all religions agree upon, and it is what I experienced when in the presence of God.

Ok. Cite me this up; since you are certain of it’s accuracy for “all religions”, I am sure that you have prepared and avaliable cites of all these religions proving this to you. After all, you would need such cites in order to know yourself. Please provide them.

All religions is quite a list, so if you’re willing to go with suggested ones first, i’d quite like to hear how the various Ancient Greek religions implied this. Aphrodite would appear to be the best avatar of Love in that pantheon, but she is outranked and not even among the first.

[lekatt]

@Sophistry and Illusion

As far as what you post, your evidence for your belief in God consists primarily in some religious experience of some sort, as far as I can tell (with some secondary backup from some poorly-understood cherry picked theistic pseudo-scientists).

Seems like all you can do is judge without any knowledge of what you are judging. Millions of people have had near death experiences such as mine, and many universities are doing research which shows consciousness lives after the death of the body. The researchers are qualified scientists working at qualified universities and published in qualified scientific journals. Simple put, you don’t know what you are talking about.

Stan Grof, M.D., researcher and author of Books of the Dead and Holotropic Mind, stated “The most extraordinary and fascinating aspect of NDEs is the occurrence of `veridical’ (verifying) out-of-body-experiences (OOBEs), a term used for experiences of disembodied consciousness with accurate extrasensory perception. Thanatological studies have repeatedly confirmed that people who are unconscious or even clinically dead can have OOBEs during which they observe their bodies and the rescue procedures from above, or perceive events in remote locations. Current thanatological research now focuses on confirmation of some preliminary observations of these experiences occurring with congenitally blind people.”

[lekatt]

@Revenant Threshold

Ok. Cite me this up; since you are certain of it’s accuracy for “all religions”, I am sure that you have prepared and avaliable cites of all these religions proving this to you. After all, you would need such cites in order to know yourself. Please provide them.

All religions is quite a list, so if you’re willing to go with suggested ones first, i’d quite like to hear how the various Ancient Greek religions implied this. Aphrodite would appear to be the best avatar of Love in that pantheon, but she is outranked and not even among the first.

“Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people’s suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal.” The Dalai Lama

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

[Der_Trihs]

@lekatt

“Every religion emphasizes human improvement, love, respect for others, sharing other people’s suffering. On these lines every religion had more or less the same viewpoint and the same goal.” The Dalai Lama

http://www.religioustolerance.org/reciproc.htm

Well, he’s simply wrong. And quoting him twice doesn’t make him any less wrong.