Well, I don’ consider Cess’s way of thinking to be “fuzzy.” I think there is a large difference between having a prayer at a school ceremony and having a club where students can pray if they wish. The difference is that one is mandatory and the other is voluntary. A graduation ceremony is supposed to embrace and include all graduates. Having a school sponsered prayer at a graduation ceremony excludes – at a ceremony to honor them – students who do not share the belief system represented by the prayer. I (and, I daresay, Cess) would be as offended by a Pagan prayer at a public school graduation as I am by a Judeo-Christian prayer – and for the same reasons.
No one HAS to join a club, be it Cess’s Pagan group, the Chess Club or Fishers of Men.
To everybody else: I just want to say how very sorry I am for responding to this thread in the first place, and feeding C#3’s need for attention. I have realized that any further comments on my part are useless, as he is not listening to me so much as looking for ammo for his next insult. The rest of you do as you will; I’m done with this nonsense.
I’ve put on my riot gear, so I’m ready to speak my mind.
C3 was right in that Cessandra does not seem to have any real committment to upholding the constitution and was likely making an issue of the prayer at her graduation in order to get some attention. Many of you flamed him for suggeting this, but I think he was right and Cess’ actions tend to support this point of view.
At the time, it seemed to me that Cess was not passionately committed to upholding the constitution, as she claimed. In the end, she ended up doing nothing about the prayer at her graduation. She did not even protest by not attending the graduation ceremony. IMHO, that would have been the least she could have done, had she really been as devoted as she wanted everyone to believe.
I understand that everyone loves a crusader, and we all wish there were more of them, but I think those of you who thought she was ‘fighting the good fight’ misplaced your confidence.
Cess is young, and it is not at all surprising to find that she does not have a real good grip on her beliefs. Heck, she’s just now starting college. She hasn’t even yet been exposed to the ideas that will, eventually, shape her conscience. I’m sure she is a fine young lady and I’m sure she does believe that prayer at graduation is wrong. However, she was not so committed as to actually do anyting about it, which is what C3 predicted from the begining. As I said when I started out, in this C3 was right.
“I think it would be a great idea” Mohandas Ghandi’s answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
Lucky: Congratulations, you have been added to the canonical list of People Who Cannot Understand The Difference Between Personal Religion And Established Religion.
Cessandra’s problem with the graduation prayer was that it was a school-directed religious activity, and was thus unconstitutional. I’d have reacted the same way, regardless of whether the prayer agreed with my own beliefs. At a publicly-funded school, neither the faculty nor the administration may promote any specific religious belief; it’s that simple.
Of course I don’t fit in; I’m part of a better puzzle.
Please re-read my post. I did not say or suggest that I feel it was OK to have the prayer at graduation. What I said was that C3 correctly spotted Cess for the typical desperately-passionate-one-minute-forgot-all-about-it-the-next teen that she is. This is to be expected and is quite normal for her age.
The point I was trying to make is that many people here behaved as if Cess was going to be the next Malcom X, and castigated C3 for suggesting that she was merely a teenager who may have had other motives. Granted, there was a lot more to the argument, but this is the only point I addressed, and this is the point on which I agree with C3. Please refrain from assuming you know my position on matters to which I have not spoken.
“I think it would be a great idea” Mohandas Ghandi’s answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
I think we have completely different views on how that situation turned out. Let’s please agree not to debate it here; that whole thing was thoroughly hashed out in the original thread.
I have no intention of re-hashing the original debate. It was you who accused me of not understanding my constitutional rights and you who revisited the original argument.
My posts have been confined to the topic of this thread, specifically, that Cess has shown her true colors with regard to the prayer at graduation debate through her actions (or lack thereof). When C3 suggested this, both in the original thread and in this thread, many people told him to fuck off and stop saying that she wasn’t a committed, conscientious young lady who was very serious about her convictions. I say again that Cess’ actions (or lack thereof)support C3’s original contention that she was making a big fuss over something that really wasn’t that important to her.
Now, lest you misunderstand, I am not saying that the issue itself is unimportant. I am also not saying that I think Cess’ argument was wrong. I am saying that Cess was far less committed to this cause than she would have had others believe. C3 called her on it then and now, and I think in this he is right.
BTW, thank you for the kind apology you offered after you wrongly assumed to know my position. Congratulations, you have been added to the canonical list of People Who Piss Me Off.
“I think it would be a great idea” Mohandas Ghandi’s answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
I stand corrected. I just received an e-mail from Cess who informs me that she did not attend her graduation ceremony. It is not clear from her message if she did this out of protest or because she had pissed off a lot of people and didn’t want to deal with the whole thing anymore. I’m not trying to be condescending here; that’s pretty much the way she said it.
So, while I stand by everything else I have said here, I retract my statement that Cess attended the ceremony. My apologies.
“I think it would be a great idea” Mohandas Ghandi’s answer when asked what he thought of Western civilization
[[My posts have been confined to the topic of this thread, specifically, that Cess has shown her true colors with regard to the prayer at graduation debate through her actions (or lack thereof). When C3 suggested this, both in the original thread and in this thread, many people told him to fuck off and stop saying that she wasn’t a committed, conscientious young lady who was very serious about her convictions. I say again that Cess’ actions (or lack thereof)support C3’s original contention that she was making a big fuss over something that really wasn’t that important to her.]] Lucky
He’s still wrong, however (and you, seemingly, too, unless I missed some mighty fine distinction). There’s a world of difference between a school-sponsored prayer at an official school event and a school simply allowing a group with a religious theme to meet on its grounds after hours, with no official involvement. There is no hypocrisy in objecting to the former and not objecting to (or even participating) in the latter. I have no objection to the latter, and I am not a member of any organized religion.
