Prayer at graduation poster child reveals self

I just read over in MPSIMS that Cessandra, the “Prayer at graduation” poster child, the one sooooo offended by a 2 minute prayer at her graduation ceremony that she was willing to embarass her parents and go against the wishes of her entire senior class has up and joined the Student Pagan Association at college this fall…after of course, having checked out the Catholic organization!

I was right! I’m vindicated! I had claimed oh so many months ago that it seemed to me that her conviction on religious grounds was weak. That she really was not offended by the religion, but rather was just trying to be difficult and get attention.

The fact that she dropped the matter anyway, now combined with this shows that my assessment was right on target!

Geesh, I wonder if she’ll threaten to call in the ACLU and shut down the Student Pagan Association if a Pagan prayer is recited at their next meeting?


Contestant #3

Wow, C#3, you are so wrong, I don’t even know where to begin. Maybe by pointing you to my response to Lucky on this topic in the thread which you mention? Will that be enough, or shall I expound?
Here’s the URL, in case you lost it: http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/001207.html


The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
– Henry David Thoreau

My Homepage: http://www.shsu.edu/~stdmed17/Home.html
My RHPS page: http://www.shsu.edu/~stdmed17/RockyHome.html

So what’s your point?

Are you trying to say that Paganism isn’t a real religion?

Are you assuring us that you won’t get an injuction to stop a Pagan prayer at a ceremony?

Are you trying to tell us that you had a beer with an ACLU rep at a on-campus kegger?

Just was the hell are you trying to say?


Contestant #3

I don’t know why I am posting but I will.

Cessandra never said she wasn’t religous. She just said that she thought it was unconstitutional for her school to have a prayer. Since the administration led the prayer.
I agreed at the time. I agree now.

Arguing the point did not make her anti-religious, it made her pro-America.

Now, the fact that she went to the catholic center on campus and the pagan association doesn’t prove your points.

Oh.
That ACLU kegger joke was pretty funny.
pat

Okay, **hole (can’t remember if I’m allowed to say words like that here), here is my fcking point:

No, it’s not. According to both my dictionary and the SPA, “pagan” is defined as one who is “not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim; one who has not religion; a herectic”. It is not, in and of itself, a religion.

And why would I do that? I beleive that I have stated time and time again that I have no problem, whatsoever with student groups having religious affiliations. I never had a problem with the kids who prayed around the flagpole or the after-school bible-tudy groups. Why would I be offended by the Pagan group offering prayers? Then again, why would the Pagan group offer any prayers? It would take half the meeting just to decide who to pray to.

Actually, dearheart, I don’t drink. I’m underage, and on top of that, it violates my convictions. Don’t you remember shortly before I left that everyone was trying to convince me that I was being a bitch by asking close friends not to drink in my presence?

Just this:

  1. My religious convictions have not changed at all since last May. You accused me of being wishy-washy in my beliefs. So, you were wrong.

  2. My convictions on the matter of prayer at graduation have not changed since last May. Although I did wuss out quite a bit on the matter, it seems that my making a fuss wouldn’t have mattered much anyway as the federal court residing over Texas has already decided the matter. I still think they are wrong, but it is not for me to decide. I am, however, prepared to raise another fuss this May if Cy-Fair finds it in their hearts to bring back the Prayer Week posters, as I have been advised by the ACLU that this is blatantly unconstitutional. But, since I am no longer a student at Cy-Fair, I am corraburating with a friend who feels just as strongly on this issue as I do.

  3. #1 and #2 have nothing to do with one another. If I were still Catholic I would still find the actions which previously grieved me just as wrong and detrimental to the American way of life. In fact, when I was Catholic, I did feel this way.

Basically, it appears that you have immediatly flamed me for trying to uphold what I feel are my rights simply because I (oh my gawd!) show some interest in leading a religious life. You act as though only atheists can be appalled at the violation of Church and State. Can only Christians be insulted if the government takes away their religious rights? Can only those of minority ethincities be offended when they are targeted for hate crimes? Geez, man, get a life.


The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
– Henry David Thoreau

My Homepage: http://www.shsu.edu/~stdmed17/Home.html
My RHPS page: http://www.shsu.edu/~stdmed17/RockyHome.html

Oh I’m sorry! I guess they didn’t teach you at Cy-Fair that part of living in the adult world is getting challenged and facing those challenges!

Concerning Paganism as religious, Cess wrote:

“No, it’s not. According to both my dictionary and the SPA, “pagan” is defined as one who is “not Christian, Jewish, or Muslim; one who has not religion; a herectic”. It is not, in and of itself, a religion.”

Oh really now! Not a religion eh? Better not tell Auraseer that. Every time I poke fun at his Paganism I’m told by him and others that I’m assailing his “religious” beliefs!! Geesh!! You Pagans got it made!! It’s a religion when you want it to be…not a religion when that’s more convenient!!

Maybe you just better study up on your newfound association! Here’s a link that oughta open your eyes:
http://www.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000227.html

So the next time that your having a little SPA meeting on the campus of that “STATE” college that you attend and prayer-like chanting breaks out, you better grab the nearest ACLU rep and put a stop to that crap because as we all know, you are heavily convicted where the Constitution is concerned.


Contestant #3

There is a difference between a relgious belief and an actual religion. Many people believe religiously in karma. It is their religious belief that doing good will bring them a better position in their next life. But karma is not a religion. Now whether AuraSeer considers “Paganism” a religion is not anything I’ve done research on, though I plan to read the linked thread in a moment. Actually, I couldn’t care less if AuraSeer considers it a religion (no offense, dear). The dictionary and the group with which I affiliate myself as a Pagan (based on my beliefs as an agnostic) do not define “Paganism” as a religion. As a matter of fact, I’ve never even heard the word “Paganism” used before. (Note the liberal use of quotes.) Was this term coined here on the SDMB?


The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation.
– Henry David Thoreau

My Homepage: http://www.shsu.edu/~stdmed17/Home.html
My RHPS page: http://www.shsu.edu/~stdmed17/RockyHome.html

PS I would like to invite AuraSeer to tell me if I am wrong. I am entirely new to this, and am only going on what I have read and learned in my group.

Let me get this straight, Connie. If Cessandra continues fighting for her civil rights, she’s not living in the real world.
If she stops fighting for her civil rights, she is weak in her convictions.
There is a word for people who use this type of argument to consistantly attack people.
Fortunately, even in the BBQ Pit I am too much of a gentleman to use it.

Another PS: I retract the idea that I had never heard the term “paganism” before. Somehow it just sounded strange in C#3’s post, but now I recognize it. :slight_smile: Silly me.

Slythe wrote:

“Let me get this straight, Connie.”

Forget it Slythe, you NEVER get it straight…even in your sex life apparently based upon a certain “tongue” statement you made recently.


Contestant #3

Okay, let me see if I’ve got this straight: Only non-religious people can think that it is wrong for a government-sponsored event to promote religion and only non-religious people can protest a prayer at a government-sponsored event (yes, a public school is part of the government) as being a violation of the Constitution. Have I got that right?

What’s Connie’s next sweeping pronouncement going to be?
People who smoke cannot believe that it’s rude to blow cigarette smoke in someone’s face?

C #3, isn’t it time for your next alien anal probe? Shut yer cake-hole and quit picking on Cessandra.

And Cess, do a little more research on paganism before you take on this notorious flaming ass. It doesn’t help your case when you claim that paganism isn’t a religion or that it isn’t even a word. Jeesh!

If you have a problem with my sexual alignment, come right out and say it, Connie.
Of course, no one expected you to actually address the issue I brought up. No matter which way Cessandra decides to go, you have a ready-made attack just waiting in the wings.
If you have a problem with my job, my love-life, my alleged relationship with a certain moderator, my wife, or any other aspect of my personal life, why don’t you start a thread here in the BBQ Pit.
I’m sure that everyone else would love to see the results.

The only thing that you’ve got straight Kat is that those are your words…not mine.

Have someone else explain the various points to you, since you want to beat the fuck out of me, I’m not doing you the favor of taking you through it step by step.


Contestant #3

Slythe,

Your bisexuality or your job as a boss of security guards doesn’t affect me. As long as you are happy with yourself that is all that counts.

I guess that you have special lisence to joke about me all over this board but turnabout is not fair play…oh…I see…


Contestant #3

GirlNextDoor,

I admit that I was a bit slow on recognizing “paganism” as a word. That is entirely my own stupidity and a shame to me as an English major. However, based on the definition of the word “Pagan”, explain to me how it is a religion in and of itself. Wicca, I can see as a religion. But, any person who is not Christian, Muslim, or Jewish can define themselves as Pagan and be correct. You could be Hindu or Buddhist or atheist and still, technically, you are Pagan. This is the basis for my claim to be a Pagan. This is the basis for the Pagan group to which I belong. Explain to me where I am wrong?

No, Connie, I want you to try to back up your assertion that your position in the OP is not “Cessandra has religious beliefs, therefore she cannot support the concept of the separation of church and state.” Or can’t you do that?

Cessandra, since you asked so nicely( ;)), I’ll quote my dictionary:

pagan noun
1 - an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible. especially: a follower of a polytheistic religion. [emphasis in original]
2 - an irreligious or hedonistic person

I am a follower of a polytheistic religion; therefore I am a pagan. Simple enough.

I’m not sure if that proves my point or not, but since all I asked was your opinion, I thank you very much, AuraSeer. :slight_smile: