Episcopalian checking in. In my experience, it’s a bit unusual for an Episcopalian to do that, but not completely out of the question. I don’t pray for non-Christian friends without checking with them first, and I wouldn’t pray out loud for an atheist in his presence unless I knew he was comfortable with it. Then again, I’m an odd duck.
It could be your SIL’s simply doing what she’s used to, or she could be being obnxious, or both. The first time it happened in my house, I might raise an eyebrow, but after that, I’d simply figure she is what she is and accept it. If your family’s the kind who can get away with a good non-judgemental religious discussion, it might be an interesting thing to bring up.
Personally, I think the host should say grace (assuming the host thinks it’s necessary/appropriate). If the host wants to invite someone else to say grace, the invitation should be made privately, person-to-person before anyone sits up to the table. There should be no pressure and the guest should be able to decline the invitation with impunity.
Having successfully delegated the role to a guest though, I think it’s pretty rude to tack on modifiers, with the possible exception of “…and bless the cook!” (with a raised glass).
If you’ve asked one person in particular to do the prayer, you shouldn’t be tacking on to it. If it’s something like Thanksgiving where (in my family at least) you go around the table and say what your thankful for/who you are praying for that’s fine but generally grace before a meal is reserved for blessing the meal and thanking God for the food. Running down the list of people is usually reserved for bedtime prayers, or whenever we wish to pray.
I thought this was hilarious - and somewhat true. You don’t P.S. God with your petitions.
“Amen.”
(“P.S. Help grandpa recover from the stroke.”)
(“P.P.S. Oh, and Sarah is trying to get pregnant, if you could help out there too.”)
(“P.P.P.S I’m hoping to get an invitiation to the homecoming dance from Justin, would you mind?”)
My take. There are a variety of types of prayers, appropriate to a variety of settings. Some encourage participation from multiple people, some do not. Grace before a meal can take a number of different forms–I especially liked singing Christmas Carols as grace at Christmas with my nieces. Rote prayer, prayers for blessings on a number of specific people, and even some form of interactive prayer–going around a circle or “popcorn” style, where people pray as they feel lead-- are all appropriate for Grace before a meal.
But, if you ask Alfred to say Grace, and you are surprised and/or disappointed in the way that he says Grace, the polite way to handle the situation is to make a mental note never to ask Alfred to say Grace again. Unless Alfred is a child–in which case you can make a mental note to give Alfred some guidance in appropriate blessings for the occasion before the next time you ask Alfred to say Grace.
To add an addendum on to someone else’s blessing is kinda rude. And if the person adding the addendum is in the habit of control-freak behavior, yeah, this counts as more control-freak behavior.
What I find funny is that, at least where I come from, it’s understood that God knows the prayers of one’s heart. Every Methodist service I’ve attended has a pastoral prayer followed by silent prayer followed by the Lord’s Prayer. For many it’s not totally necessary to pray out loud, nor does prayer have to follow a three to five paragraph formula. God listens when you’re talking and when you’re done, you’re done.
I’ve been around a LOT of prayers in my time. Adding to someone else’s prayer, especially when you specifically asked someone to speak, is highly unusual. I wouldn’t necessarily call it rude because that depends on the intentions of the one who interrupts or adds-on. My grandmother, for instance, will sometimes add a thought or two when someone says a prayer at a big family function. It’s her way to remind us to keep Aunt Kathy or Uncle Jim in our thoughts. However, we’re not very rigid about that sort of thing so we don’t find it bothersome.
As for your situation, I can’t say if it’s rude or not. You know this woman better than we do. You would know if she’s “correcting” your BiL’s prayer better than us. I would probably be irritated if a person I disliked asked me to say grace and then added to it at length. I would definitely be ticked off she knew I didn’t appreciate it and spoke anyway.
My husband is a free-form prayer, so when he says grace, he’s all over the place, though he does always remember to bless the food. My brother, on the other hand, sticks with the Lord’s Prayer. While my husband might stick in a request for a sick relative during his own prayer, he would not consider adding an addendum for the request to my brother’s prayer if he blessed the meal. It would seem quite rude to me, and also as if my husband were publicly and snarkily criticizing my brother, which a) he’d never do in the first place, and b) I wouldn’t put up with for a minute.
Here’s the thing: prayers do not need to be performed over food to be heard by God. You want to pray for Aunt Sally in her struggle with cancer? There’s no problem with praying for her quietly on your own, or with your spouse and kids later if you’re so inclined. There’s no need to make a public spectacle of it.
If her goal is actually public witness for Christ, I think she’s going about it the wrong way. Somebody (Augustine?) said that we ought to preach the gospel at all times, and only when necessary should we use words.
Recovering Catholic here, current agnostic. Personally, I see nothing rude in the OP. It’s a freaking prayer. If somebody wants to add a petition, so what? No harm, no foul. If I were in the OP’s situation, I don’t think it would have even registered as being something odd. If I were sick or some of my family were sick, why would I take offense at somebody praying for them, even if I don’t really believe in God?
God will smite your wife as a polygamist, but other than that, yes, it’s rude to invite someone else to pray and then add your prayer. It’s not the worst thing in the world but it does defeat the purpose of asking someone else to pray.
I do get called out after I LordblessusandtheseyourgiftswhichweareabouttoreceivethroughyourgoodnessthroughChristourLordAmen ::cross myself.
“Now, could you say that again, so we can actually understand the words?”
I do wonder, though, if the SIL is from a part of the country where freeform prayer is common. If so, it might be something she’s used to, which would make it less rude in my book. I have a coworker who’s church apparently frowns on composed or standardized prayer. If she were to add something to a grace, I may not be surprised and wouldn’t consider it rude. I’s assume it’s simply what she prefers and is used to.
I’m a Catholic, and I see a meal blessing as a time to thank God, not to petition him…so to me it would be a little weird to have the petitions tacked on. Additionally, I personally wouldn’t intrude on how someone else wants to offer a prayer…it seems to kind of imply that you think they didn’t do it right. I remember I was once at the house of a friend who is Hindu. They said a prayer (which I didn’t understand, because I don’t speak the language), and then they invited me to say one, as well, so I said the standard Catholic prayer. I thought it was very very nice for them to ask me, but I wouldn’t have expected them to, and certainly wouldn’t presume to just throw it in there to be sure I got to say my piece!
But, it isn’t a HUGE deal that she does this, and in the interest of family harmony, I would probably just ignore it.
I too am Episcopalian. My take is that a pre-meal blessing is just that - a time to thank God for providing us with food. It is well and good to pray for Cindy and Aunt Sally and Cousin Bob, but the time to do that is not while the food is getting cold and especially not when it might make the dinner guests uncomfortable.
The Episcopal Book of Common Prayer has a couple of perfectly good mealtime prayers that would be appropriate (p. 836):
“Give us grateful hearts, our Father, for all thy mercies, and make us mindful of the needs of others, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.” or
“Bless, O Lord, thy gifts to our use and us to thy service; for Christ’s sake. Amen.” or
“Blessed are you, O Lord God, King of the Universe, for you give us food to sustain our lives and make our hearts glad; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.” or
“For these and all his mercies, God’s holy Name be blessed and praised; through Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.”
The bottom line for me is that if SIL is asking someone else to pray, she needs to be okay with however they pray and let it go. Otherwise, do the praying herself and do it so as not to make her guests uncomfortable.
Yes, but if the others present are supposed to say ‘Amen’ - that essentially means ‘I agree’, so they ought to be able to understand the gist of what they’re agreeing with.
Yeah, that sounds to me like the key here. I don’t think there was anything rude about what she did. It seems to me that it’s more like thinking “Oh, by the way, God, while we’ve got your attention here are some people who need your help…” rather than trying to “redo” his prayer because it wasn’t good enough.
She thinks she’s helping people by praying for them. There’s no need to read any bad motive into that.
Believe me there is no question that she is a control freak, I was just wondering if this is more evidence of it. Her past behaviour includes showing up at my sister’s house for thanksgiving as an invited guest and taking over the kitchen and hostess duties. She also has this weird inability to understand why anyone would want to live in any way other than the way she has patterned her life into this kind of retro June Cleaver world. Now I’m just complaining about her, but she bugs the shit out of me.
