I was not really arguing that God created sin, just that often when the subject of God sending His sone to die for sins is brought up, some will suggest that if God had not created sin, then He would not have had to make a way out of it.
I was just trying to be preemptive of that arguement, but did not want to get into a disertation of how you cannot have good without evil or any of those ideas.
Since this passage is read in Mass on Ash Wednesday, it’s not one we Catholics are not aware of! Ashes are a reminder to me of my own need to repent, and “remember, man, you are dust and unto dust you shall return”. It’s certainly not be proclaiming how great I am in front of anyone else! And Catholics do practice Bible study and lectio divina, we just also rely on sacred tradition.
RitterSport, do you think like this when you see someone wearing a cross necklace? What about a priest or nun wearing their religious garb? Really, how is this any different?
You must not live near many Catholics then – it’s not restricted to the U.S. I’m almost certain that Catholics in the U.K. would get ashes.
From the wikipedia article on Ash Wednesday (emphasis added):
Well, yes, I mentioned wearing crosses right in the OP. How about cross tattoos? As a Jew, Jesus would be very opposed to getting a tattoo at all, and on top of that, it seems like a pretty ostentatious display. The Vatican and the Pope’s garb is also amazingly ostentatious.
I’m not trying to tell Catholics or other Christians how to practice, I’m trying to understand how they resolve this particular seeming conflict, while getting quite literal about other sections. I mention above that it’s really my problem, having not grown up with any sort of religious tradition.
Seems you’re veering off in a couple of new directions with that though. Ashes aren’t tattoo’s or expensive trappings as I guess you’re partly referring to with ‘Pope’s amazingly ostentatious garb’.
But in general I think you’re caught in a common Catch 22. There’s no real reason from your POV to learn in any depth about Catholicism. But then if you comment, it’s not based on much knowledge. Same would go for Christianity generally, with again also the common implicit assumption Christianity=Protestantism (or ‘it’s all the same to me’, but that’s back to the Catch 22) when discussing Catholicism.
But I think actually it’s been answered why wearing ashes is not what discussed in ‘ostentatious display’ in Matthew. That passage and a number similar are interpreted, in the religion Catholicism*, as speaking of the falsity of conscious hypocrisy. And I think it’s pretty clear even to a non-Christian reading. In the same section the example is given of a hypocrite praying something like ‘thank you God I’m not a sinner like this tax collector’. If you wear ashes as a sign of ‘ashes to ashes’ which you believe, that’s not hypocrisy. And I think that’s actually a pretty common sense interpretation that doesn’t even require a lot of study. Not the hardest case IOW.
*not exclusively, Protestant practice varies from quite like Catholicism including with ashes, to totally different but in very ‘conservative’ (to outsiders, or true and originalist as those Protestants see it) ways, to Protestants who say they don’t even believe in God but are still part of a sect. But the problem of switching back and forth between what ‘Catholics or Christians’ do is it isn’t even two discrete things (or a few counting Catholic, Protestant, all Eastern Churches together or separately). Protestantism varies almost with limit. Catholicism isn’t one exact thing at the believer level, but it’s a lot less varied comparatively.
So after reading this I image-Googled “the pope.” Most of the pictures that came up were of the current pope, wearing plain white robes and a white skullcap—not particularly ostentatious. What were you thinking of?
As for the Vatican being ostentatious, the definition that came up when I googled “ostentatious” was “characterized by vulgar or pretentious display; designed to impress or attract notice.” Part of that’s an artistic judgment—is the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel “vulgar and pretentious” or is it Great Art? And part of it goes to motive—why was it designed that way? To glorify God, or to glorify or draw attention to a human being or human institution?
The one I’ve wondered about w.r.t Catholics is how they reconcile calling their priests “Father” with the words of Jesus in Matthew 23:9 (“And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.”) Although, taken completely literally, this would seem to forbid using the word “father” about one’s biological human father, too.
Jesus is the new Covenant. There were many things that Jesus did that offended traditional Jewish laws and customs.
Sort of, except when he says he’s not overthrowing Jewish laws and customs.
Thudlow Boink, if you Google “pope in hat” you’ll see some pretty ostentatious displays.
Corry El, the way I would read Matthew (which is obviously wrong) would certainly allow a priest to put the ashes on your head in order to remind you of your mortality (or for whatever reason). However, once that was done, my read would require the person with the ashes to wash them off and look chipper, so as not to seem whiny while fasting.
But, Catholics do their own thing, which I understand. They rely on many things in addition to the words in the bible. Jews do something similar, as far as I’m aware, adding rules and interpretations as time goes on.
As I mentioned earlier, the loudest Christians here in the US also seem to be the most literal and most in violation of the letter and spirit of that passage (Prosperity Gospel, bible thumpers on TV and radio, trying to get prayers spoken at school and before school events. The ashes thing just reminded me to ask about many Christian activities in the context of Matthew.
The “garb” is usually worn for Mass or other public ceremonies to the glory of God. The priest wears a special fancy chasuble for Mass because the Eucharist is the celebration of the resurrection of Christ and the miracle of His Body and Blood He gave us. It’s a feast, a celebration, and you wear your best clothes to a banquet.
I’ve seen people harp on the Church using fancy vessels for the Body and Blood, and I think, it’s the Body and Blood of Christ. What is more fitting than the best materials we have to hold such a thing?
I agree with you about tattoos, as much as I would like a “permanent” cross on myself, I don’t like that it would change and wear over time. But I don’t think those who get them are wrong to do so.
Thank you, senoy; in that context, an Ash Wednesday potluck makes a lot more sense.
As for my comment about fish fries, they’re supposed to be about austerity and asceticism, but in practice, they never work out that way. My church even goes so far as to call it a “fisherman’s feast”. I guess at some point it’s just something we do because we’ve always done it.
IIRC, (and I am Lutheran, so I could be way off base) Catholics consider Priests to stand in for God, as a mediator between God and man. Also, IIRC, this title arose very early in Christianity.
As to the OP, I received ashes as well and wore them to dinner afterwards (which was my first meal of the day - Lutherans may fast but are not required to do so). I have always read the passage, which btw is also always the Gospel reading for Ash Wednesday, as not to pray in public for the reason of being praised by others. If you are doing it because you want to give thanks to God or to witness to others, that isn’t just ok, but a good thing to do.
I used to have a priest who would address this every Ash Wednesday. He basically said that everyone always wonders whether they should wash their forehead after the imposition of ashes or not. His advice was just for them to decide what they were more comfortable with - and then do the opposite.
Feeling a little bit awkward and conspicuous walking around with dirt smudged on your forehead? Good, keep it there. Kind of proud of it, hoping people will ask what it’s about? Wash it off.
Didn’t Jesus say something about cutting off your arm if it does things that are offensive to God? Perhaps if the ashes are causing you a problem, you can cut off your head. 
A lot of Religions have putting or smearing something on your face and/or facial markings as part of ritual and custom. I’m not really bothered by any of it. Showing your religion like that isn’t proselytizing, it is just participating in a ritual. You can only be offended by that if you believe the world owes you protection even from exposure to religion.
Though in many other activities, the performer is deliberately seeking public recognition as a believer by others. For respect and reputation. They quite literally are getting their (desired) reward on Earth rather than Heaven.
Of course, that’s the same reason con men do it too. After all, no one is going to be cheated by a devout man of the faith, right?