Presents that totally failed

No, because it’s usually got a “gotcha” sub-text.

That’s a bigger part of Scottish culture than the kilt.

(A “Wee Dram” indeed… that’s the third Huge Dram we’ve downed!)

The kilt (tartan) arrived in Scotland from Ireland with the Dál Riata migration around 400AD.

Not that I want to interrupt your recreational outrage; you do you. :wink:

As for me I very much approved when Vin Diesel wore one.

No worries: My ancestry profile puts me at 72% Scottish, 24% Irish. I think a bit of me arrived in Scotland from Ireland as well.

That’s a fairly modern idea. It was basically invented in the 19th century by cloth manufacturers, to increase sales.

When my gf went to Ireland with her friend and their mothers, I warned her not to order a car bomb at the pub.

What if they are Irish? The kilt has Irish history.

The “Irish kilt” is an innovation with a recent history. In brief, in the late 19th/early 20th century, with the rise of Irish nationalism, someone got the idea for Irish men to wear kilts, the logic basically being to have some kind of distinctive Celtic national dress. The kilts were often saffron-colored, in imitation of a Renaissance-era Irish shirt garment called the leine. Today, kilts are worn by pipers in Irish pipe bands (or by individual pipers from Ireland / of Irish heritage), typically saffron- or green-colored, though tartan kilts are also worn (typcially, as far as I can determine, in Northern Ireland, e.g. by the Field Marshal Montgomery Pipe Band).

Also in the British Army, pipers - but only pipers - of Irish regiments and the Irish Guards, wear saffron kilts. In Canada, we even have a reserve unit of the Army called the Irish Regiment of Canada, and there everyone wears a kilt, and it’s in a yellowish tartan that I have seen referred to as “O’Saffron”.

In the USA, there are Irish-styled pipe bands, and they obviously wear kilts, as above. And then there are people of Irish heritage in North America who have kilts, again, either monochrome, or with an “Irish tartan.” These tartans are generally modern commercial inventions created in order to sell the cloth to interested parties.

I think I know of at least two cases where garments containing tartan from the 16th or 17th century have been found in Irish bogs, but these would both include trews (tartan trowsers or tights), definitely not kilts, and the possibility has been raised in at least one case that they had been owned by a Scot who had travelled to Ireland.

A big departure from the original topic, but I had to clarify this point.

While I agree that the fashion went to trousers for hundreds of years in between, there are stone carvings at Clon Macnoise which clearly show the men of the time in kilts and other types of skirt c.900s.

Precisely this. But they weren’t plaid.

Generally, stone carvings of that vintage are too crude to determine the precise nature of such garment or other object being displayed. Perhaps they were actually wearing something akin to the leine that I already mentioned?

Not something that I directly saw myself but my sister told me about it.
She got married to a man who had two teenagers from a previous marriage. His ex had abandoned the family when the kids were still very small, and then there were many years of excess amount of drugs, alcohol, and crazy men with very sporadic contact.
Apparently, while the kids were in high school, she got sober and clean and wanted to be a mother.
That Christmas, she sent a whole box of toys from a dollar shop, but all more appropriate for kindergarten kids than teens. The kids would just open one, roll their eyes and make a joke.

My sister said it was the most awkward Christmas morning she ever had.

Just read the thread.

While kimonos are not commonly worn by the masses, they are a long ways from being obsolete.

They are still commonly used for certain ceremonies, such as the Coming of Age Ceremony for people who have turned twenty.

University and college graduations:

Other examples are weddings and funerals. Enka singers regularly appear on TV in kimonos, and many other examples.

That all said, most Japanese from Japan people don’t seem to be particularly upset about any “cultural appropriation”.

Ouch. That had to have hurt whatever small particle of feeling the teens still had for bio-Mom.


A sorta the same but quite different story:
My late aged MIL was as proper as they come. And generally a very sweet and caring person, albeit a tad tone-deaf emotionally.

Whenever she interacted with her two daughters, she treated them like they were 6. Despite MIL having been a great cheerleader for their advanced degrees, their successful careers, their marriages, and their kids, the apex of their existence in her eyes was when they were 6 and she was queen bee with two perfect little dependent princesses rapturously orbiting their beaming Mom.

Both Daughters were in their 60s when Mom died and this was still a constant source of low-level irritation to them. Mom never got so bad as to give utterly age-inappropriate gifts, but holidays together were especially awkward as every reminiscence was from their early childhood; none from later.

Did this get worse as she got older?

Because, if so, it’s possible that her memory was no longer clear for recent events, but was still quite clear for earlier ones. In an attempt to hide that her recent memory was slipping, she may have restricted herself to talking about things that were still clear.

– if she’d been doing this consistently, and to the same degree, for thirty years with no signs of other symptoms, I withdraw the suggestion.

Over the holidays I told everyone about the xmas when my daughter was 3 or 4. I’d pick her up from daycare and on the drive home, if either of us saw xmas lights, they had to yell, “christmas lights, christmas lights” to win the game.

I totally made up “the game” and I would respond slowly so that she could win. It was one of my favorite memories from the time. And my daughter couldn’t remember it at all, which actually brought a tear to my eye.

Mostly this.

Yeah, for the last 10 years or so she was definitely losing her memory for then-current stuff. By the time she died at age 96, her last 10 years had many blurry areas, and the last 6 months was mostly a blur. She was still actively interested in everything in the world, watched TV, read newspapers, etc. But retained very little of it past a few hours, sometimes not even that. And yes, she was good at (trying to) dissemble past her gaps.

But even very late in her life her recall from when her daughters were 20 or 40 was just fine. She just greatly preferred to talk about when they were 6. And, more problematically, to infantilize them both in the doing. Which pissed them both off a bunch, albeit with very different responses as fit their very different personalities.


Ouch. For somebody who often plays a gruff curmudgeon on the Dope, you’re also darn good at being a softie for the right people. Which is as it should be. Bravo!

I’ve just spent the last few days interacting intensively with 2, 3, & 4yo relatives. Who are fun, engaged, interested, and very dynamic. I have no expectation that when they’re 10 they’ll have any specific recollection of me at all. Tomorrow? Sure. Later on? No way. Will my interactions be a (tiny) part of how their personality shapes up? I sure hope so. Will they remember the episodes? No way.

My own earliest identifiable memory is age 4 years 7 months. Which I can date precisely because it’s the occasion of my youngest sibling being born. I have lots of later memories that I can place roughly in a timeline by age of sibs, my progress through school, etc. But none from before then. Although I have no doubt that before that time I had many memories of interactions with parents and playmates and such. And I have no doubt my parents remembered a lot of me from infant through then that I then knew nothing about even if I’d been articulate enough to talk about them.

I came across my baby book where my mom recorded events for the first five years of my life. I have hazy memories of two things that were at 3.75 years, getting my tonsils out and starting at one particular nursery school.

We’ve had scads of threads on earliest memories. The most recent I could remember (hah) / search up is from 2011. So getting old.

IIRC I was one of the latest, your memory age is close to the median, and a few people could place things back around age 2.

Here’s a search for anyone wanting to pursue this rabbit trail elsewhere: Search results for ‘In:title earliest memory’ - Straight Dope Message Board

Yikes!

I’m now trying to resist the temptation to reply to several zombie threads at once.