…but for the tendency towards extreme self-aggrandizement, and endless self-praise.
If you loath him now would you still?
If you are fond of him now do you find this quality appealing in other people you admire?
I would find him still dislikable, but more tolerable. Kind of like how people like George Patton were mean SOBs but grudgingly respected.
Without the narcissism and desire for self-praise, but still with the mean spirit and grudge-holding and lack of filter between Id and mouth (or smartphone), opportinistic profiteering and disregard for traditional norms? Not a change. No question about it, character counts and someone who is a crass vindictive bully who likes making people squirm and destabilizes the system for personal gain should NOT be in a position of authority.
Were he OTOH to affect gentlemanly temperament and let criticism slide off his back? Play within the established rules to gain advantage as many others have before? I’d still deride and reject many of his policies and executive actions as deleterious to the national interest and the citizenry’s well-being, but more along the normal opposition route. And I’d still be convinced that his “succesful magnate” persona was just a PR media construct covering up a history of failed businesses or schemes to fleece the marks.
I am not repulsed by all big, histronic, self-promoting personalities. In fact, I’m drawn to divas mainly because these of these qualities. But I’m also drawn to them because they are talented. It’s the whole package, is what I’m saying. If Patti Labelle couldn’t sing worth a lick, then her diva-esque personality and big ole hair wouldn’t be so endearing.
IMHO, if Trump were a competent leader, then I’d be willing to cut him some slack on the personality side. I still wouldn’t want him to be so self-aggrandizing during the taskforce debriefings, to be sure. But if the death toll wasn’t as high as it is and the federal response mishaps not so obvious and prolific, the self-aggrandizing wouldn’t be as jarring and inexcusable as they are now. The problem with Trump’s personality is that he doesn’t know when to tamp it down. We’re in a national emergency (and not a ginned-up one like with the refugee caravan). This is not the time to be a diva, a smartass, or a clown.
"Pretend for a moment that our president had a more ‘normal’ personality"
For some reason I’m hearing that opening phrase delivered by Rod Serling…
It sounds like you are asking what our judgment would be of just his policies without the personality. If that is the case, I am still strongly opposed to most of his policies and would cheerfully vote him out tomorrow. My attitude in this area is not personal now and would not be personal then.
If, as part of the scrubbing of his personality you are suggesting he would also be no longer a criminal then I would not be expecting indictments after he was voted out.
My greatest fear is that, now that the ground has been broken for a brazen populist to hold this office, another one will come along who is also much smarter and more intentional. There’s no reason a populist with bad intentions has to be a moron or obviously evil, or even a criminal megalomaniac, if their main goal is only to get and keep power.
Same here. I really don’t care about whether a politician’s personality is likeable to me or not. It’s about what they do.
Even under an articulate president, I don’t care much at all about political rhetoric in the form of speeches or spokesperson statements. Can’t remember the last time I listened to a SOTU address, and certainly not anything said at a rally. That sort of speech is mostly meant to obfuscate, say nothing of substance, or just stir up the rabble rousers. I read my news, almost never watch video of any kind pertaining to current events. If a politician says anything noteworthy, I’ll read about it afterward.
This being the case, I’m not that bothered by Trump being a complete jackass. I know this about him, and am happy to ignore him. Reading about his actual policies and actions makes it very clear he’s not governing in a way I approve. Just the number of incompetent ideologues he’s appointed to various agencies and judgeships is enough to know he’s a terrible president.
It works the other way too - LBJ was an incredible asshole, but also did a few things that I approved of.
It would make him less annoying but he would still be unacceptable as a President.
I fully agree. And it always amazes me when I see that other people don’t feel this way.
I don’t see a President as an imaginary best friend or surrogate father figure or role model. The way I look at a President is to think “If I owned a large business and was hiring somebody to run my business, would this guy do a good job?”
Who cares if he’s tall or can tell good jokes or would be fun to have a beer with? I want somebody who can manage a large organization, deal with problems as they arise, form a good team of subordinates, and improve my business. If he does those things well, I don’t care if he has a bad personality. I won’t be spending any time around him.
Intellect isn’t a personality so we’re really just wiping out the criminal aspect.
Certain better, but he’d still be screwing everything up and patting himself on the back for it.
That’s still a great harm to the country, even if it’s not quite as big of a harm towards the Constitution.
I don’t see a President as an imaginary best friend, surrogate father figure, or role model, either, but character matters. Integrity matters. If you owned a large business and this guy did a good job, but his personality is so obnoxious, your employee turnover was ridiculously high (which, of course, costs money) because nobody could stand working with him, would you still not care because YOU don’t work with him?
And do you think the objections to Trump’s personality are merely that he can’t tell good jokes or wouldn’t be fun to have a beer with? (I ignored “tall” because that’s not even remotely related to personality.)
The President of the United States is not running a business. His job is much more complex that that, and his character impacts Americans and the rest of the world.
He’d be even worse because he’d be more effective at doing damage. He’d likely have had good odds at actually making himself dictator instead of playing the part while not putting the effort in to make it a reality.
My exact thought. It requires an extreme suspension of disbelief, like considering THE MATRIX a documentary or Brussels sprouts as palatable. A “normal” Tramp? Impossible.
There’s a dozen good reasons to object to Donald Trump being President. He’s an incompetent manager, an ineffective leader, an horrible human being, and an all-around idiot. He’s not somebody I would hire to do a job and he’s not somebody I would want to hang out with either.
I think a better example of what I said would be Hillary Clinton. There were a lot of people who said they wouldn’t vote for her because they didn’t like her personality. Which I thought was a ridiculous issue. Why should I care about her personality? I was never going to meet her. I looked at her ability to perform the job and I felt she had that.
I don’t have a problem with someone using personality as a criterion (one of many) for choosing a leader. Yes, I agree that people should be judged on their performance and the kind of experiences they have. You can be a jerk and demonstrate solid leadership in most situations.
But I believe there is merit to considering how a person will conduct themselves under extreme circumstances in addition to run-of-the-mill ones. Like, I don’t want a boss who flies off the handle during emergencies, even if they are great to be around otherwise. Because it is during emergency situations where good leadership matters the most. Since most people have not ever handled major crises the likes experienced in the White House, it thus makes perfect sense to use personality (some may say “temperament”) to evaluate a candidate’s ability to at least pantomime good leadership during difficult times.
Trump gave us many clues throughout his candidacy that he lacked a presidential temperament and that he would say and do irresponsible things when under pressure.
I also don’t think Trump just has a disagreeable personality. I think he has a disordered personality. At the risk of coming across as ableist, I think having a non-disordered personality should be a minimum requirement for holding the office of US president.
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In other words if he was utterly incompetent, but personally pleasnt? I likely wouldn’t dislike him quite as much as I do. That answer your question?
First let me point out that I think that the self-aggrandizement and self-praise is a part of why he doesn’t have a “normal personality.” And that stuff like his hatred isn’t actually personality, just character.
That said, that’s the only thing I can think you mean by “normal personality” while allowing him to still be openly narcissistic. So you’re saying he’s less overtly hateful. So, yeah, my intuitive disgust would not be there. My visceral hatred would not be there.
But then there are his actions, and those actions would still be just as hateful, since actions are not generally considered part of “personality.” So, while it would take me longer to get there, my hatred would be just as strong by now.
I’d just be more forgiving of people who didn’t see it. As is, they have to be willfully blind, which says a lot about their character, and is the bulk of what makes me feel despondent about the whole thing. Especially since I thought I knew a lot of these people.