What has that got to do with anything?
Are you kidding me???
Are you really living in a vacuum?
Okay… I’d like to make this post (perhaps my last on this subject).
First, I have no personal dislike of Prince. I am a guitarist myself (since I was 13; I am 58, now) and consider him to quite good. He’s not my cup of tea, but he had several songs that I liked, and although I only saw him once (on TV), I thoroughly enjoyed it.
I have read one the offending posts on this thread, and I quite agree that it was distasteful. I would urge the writer to think before he posts again, as I do not think he can defend that post.
Now, let’s move on: I want us all to forget who the man was that died in that elevator.
If we can forget who he was, we can consider some of the consequences of his actions:
1- This man’s death required a special autopsy: and blood tests, perhaps more than one.
2- An on-going criminal investigation had to be launched. We cannot blame the police, they’ve got to determine who wrote the scripts they shouldn’t have, and where these off the books meds came from.
No. 2 has been very costly, and the final cost will no doubt be astronomical when it’s all said and done.
Now, as a friend of mine used to love to say: as to who will have to pay for this, I’ll give you three guesses, and the first two don’t count.
And the answer of course, is all of us… the taxpayers.
At the risk of being called “weird”… this equation is simply not acceptable.
And I’ll be honest: I lost a lot of respect for Wordman after his last post.
Let’s dial back the outrage.
Noted.
I’d also like you to note that it was done in response to a personal attack. Read his reply to me.
You’d wager that… but you don’t know that. You’re guessing. At least admit it’s your best guess and not a proven fact.
First, I haven’t heard about the non-script opioids - do you have a cite for that?
Also - I don’t see why illicit opioids couldn’t be fentanyl. There’s been fentanyl on the street for decades. You can get pretty much anything you want on the black market, particularly if you have money.
And that proves… what? That he has friends? That maybe he was in so much pain he didn’t feel up to driving himself? I had a friend who, for a month before his hip replacement, he stopped driving because it was just too damn painful.
Now that is something I’ve been wondering about myself.
No, the notion that addiction is a crime and/or moral failing, along with stupid regulations, is making it more difficult for others to get their medication.
That, and modern medicine doesn’t deal well with chronic pain.
There was nothing special about his autopsy - it the same one that anyone gets who dies unexpectedly of non-obvious causes. When my 24 year old nephew laid down for a nap and never woke up he got the exact same autopsy. When a fellow pilot flew his airplane into the side of a mountain in Kentucky he got the exact same autopsy. a coworker of mind who died in her favorite chair reading her book recently is getting the exact same autopsy. In that respect, Prince has been treated no better and no worse than anyone else found dead.
What, and you think all those other cases of illegal narcotics are simply ignored? Investigating crimes is what the police do.
I concede that. You’re correct.
But let’s apply common sense: they’re giving the guy weak painkillers, 10mg is the max dosage… the only way to get the ‘high’ is to take more and more. That must have been his MO, as I have heard he had a six-month supply when he died (cannot disclose my source, but I believe them)
Read the articles… all you have to do is Yahoo or Google em.
I agree. But now who is speculating? 
And old saying: with friends like that… … …
Hooey! The Fed’s will certainly use this to try to crack down on everyone. You’d better hope you do not get hurt… instead of a doctor, you may end up with a guy holding a chart.
Then… find a better doctor. Don’t buy your own.
Now… I throw some of you back at you: citation, please.
Nope… that makes my point stronger. Thank you!
@ Broom,
You didn’t launch a personal attack .
I appreciate being challenged; you’re all right in my book!
[quote=“Baron_Greenback, post:247, topic:752828”]
[/QUOTE]Sorry… off-point posts are not worth my time, so I didn’t look at the video.
I noticed you went off-line after posting it… so either explain yourself, or…
Why do you think he was taking drugs to “get high”?
One can become physically dependent, that is, addicted, without ever getting high. Treatment for someone with a physical dependency, as opposed to a psychological one, can be both different and effective.
Your assumption is that anyone with increased tolerance and a physical dependency is “getting high”. That is untrue. Even with the most careful and conservative used of opioids, if you take them for years on a daily basis, even if it’s for legitimate pain, you WILL become physically dependent to greater or lesser degree. It has nothing to do with willpower or intoxication, it’s a purely physical and chemical process. If it’s just a physical dependency as a side effect of legitimate treatment than usually the person can be tapered off without incident, without subsequent cravings.
This is in contrast to someone who is using for psychological reasons and for whom craving and desire to use will continue for long, long after al physical trace of the dependency is gone.
This is part of the hell that people who become dependent as a side effect of medical treatment have to go through - a misunderstanding of their actual situation and an assumption they’re “getting high” when that’s NOT what’s driving their use. Seeking “pain relief” is not the same thing as “getting high”. (Admittedly, there can be overlap in some cases but it’s not a universal)
Nothing wrong with speculating as long as you’re honest about what you’re doing and the limitations of your personal knowledge.
Again - friends like what?
When I drove my friend to the local drugstore for his legitimate, prescription painkillers a week before his hip replacement was I actually as a drug dealer? When I went to pick up morphine for my dying mother when she was in home hospice was I acting as a drug dealer? Driving someone to a pharmacy proves nothing either way.
Now, if someone is purchasing opiates from a dark alleyway or in a bar or something yes, that is highly suspicious but you need more than “drove X home from the Walgreen’s” to raise an eyebrow.
As a white, middle-aged woman who can still pass for middle-class in mannerisms and speech, even if no longer in bank account, I’m actually still pretty likely to get whatever pain medication I need. We all know it’s the obvious poor and the minorities who are going to suffer the worst from this.
I don’t have a ton of time to do the research right now, but here is a link that touches on some of it, and finding a man dead in an elevator would certainly fall under the “autopsy required” criteria. As noted, a forensic autopsy (which is the case with Prince) requires testing not done in a hospital autopsy.
I will also refer you to Working Stiff: Two Years, 262 Bodies, and the Making of a Medical Examiner for descriptions of what’s involved in routine forensic autopsies. If the cause of death is not obvious trauma or disease process then other tests are routinely employed, including toxicology.
Why do you think he was taking drugs to “get high”?
Broom,
I never go beyond what I consider to be the absurd.
Are you suggesting that the 10mg dosage is somehow relevant to how “weak” the medicine is? I’m confused. Would you consider a Tylenol “stronger” because it’s dosed in 325mg pills? Would you consider Dilaudid “weaker” because its starting dose is 2mg instead of 5?
(By the way, if anyone has a better way to explain this, please do let me know. It’s something I struggle with explaining to my patients as well. It’s very common for someone to have two medications that have both been prescribed for the same health condition, like high blood pressure, because they work in two different ways. Instead of taking both of them daily as prescribed, they take the one with the smaller number of milligrams if their blood pressure is a little high, and the one with the larger number of milligrams if their blood pressure is very high. That’s…that’s not how it works…)
Percocet’s maximum available dosage is 10mg of oxycodone because it usually works at that level (although I’ve seen it prescribed two at a time, max 6 tablets per day due to the acetaminophen.) Because it’s strong enough to work in fairly small doses.
Percocet is not a “weak” painkiller. It’s not the strongest thing out there, but it’s one of the strongest we use in the home (but not hospice) setting by oral route for chronic pain. When it doesn’t work, Fentanyl patches are often the next step. (Too often, in my opinion. I don’t like Fentanyl for home use at all. Fentanyl patches are the only medication self-administration error I’ve had to call 911 for.)
Oh it was just my little comment on your “last post in this thread” status. Your time doesn’t appear to be terribly valuable though, does it?
I wouldn’t know… I openly dismissed you.
Sir… or Ms,
10 mg is weak. I currently am prescribed 30mg of IM Oxycodone- 4 times daily - 120 mg per day; 120 tablets per month.
You do not know what you’re talking about.
Let me add: If you take your meds as prescribed… they’ll work.
Treat em like candy and guess what?
What dose were you started at? What route and frequency?
You did NOT start at 30mg four times a day. You habituated to a lower level or different opiate and your doctor raised the dose to titrate the level.
OR your doctor is one of those “quacks” who is prescribing recklessly.
I’m a certified pain management nurse, “Bro.”
Then why are you on 30mg of Oxycodone 4 times daily? Why doesn’t your doctor write you a scrip for 2 Extra Strength Tylenol? If you take them as prescribed…they’ll work, right?
If everyone’s pain was controlled by their prescription, we wouldn’t have a pain management specialty.
@ Why Not
I’ll try to answer your questions, as I believe you to be sincere. Trying to see if I can post a pic of my x–rays without using an image tag.
Can you help?
BTW: I’m a programmer… just need to know the in’s and outs about this site.
Actually, oxycodone is considered a strong opioid. Most morphine equivalence conversions peg it somewhere between 1.5-2 times the potency of oral morphine, thus 10mg of oxycodone is roughly equivalent to 15 to 20mg of morphine (Ohio’s prescription drug monitoring program software uses the 1.5x number). Moreover, while Percocet is limited by it’s tylenol content, even the max/day of Percocet 10/325 (6 if we’re being conservative and not exceeding 2 grams of acetaminophen in a day, 12 if we’re using the older 4 gram limit) puts us at 90mg of morphine equivalence for 6 tabs (60mg x 1.5) and 180mg if using the 12 tablets). And that’s not accounting for straight up oxycodone IR tablets which come in 5mg, 10mg, 15mg, and 30mg increments.
There’s a difference between potency and strength. This difference is a key for understanding why commercials for, say, Ibuprofen (Motrin/Advil) or Naproxen Sodium (Aleve) never say they’re the strongest, they say nothing OTC is stronger…because, aside from differences in individual patients, the OTC doses recommended in their OTC labeling are roughly equal in the strength of relief they provide, with the major difference being driven more by the kinetics of drug absorption/metabolism/elimination than it is a superiority of one drug over the other. Dilaudid (hydromorphone) at 2mg orally isn’t stronger than morphine at 8mg–they’re roughly equal in their relief of pain at that point. Dilaudid just happens to be more potent (meaning it takes a smaller amount of the drug to achieve the same effect as 8mg of morphine or 5mg of oxycodone, which roughly translates to 7.5mg of morphine). Potency is a (sometimes) useful comparator of drugs within a class, but is rarely useful beyond that comparison.