Prince Harry on 60 Minutes — what’s his story? Good guy? Spoiled brat? What?

The BBQ Pit
161

What “evidence” is that? An out of context exchange, only covering a few texts, released only by one side who we know is already motivated to painting the other side in a bad light knowing that they won’t answer back.
And what exactly does that exchange show? absolutely nothing. I’ve had hundreds of text exchanges just like it without it being evidence of…anything.

We don’t know what happened before that exchange, we don’t know what happened after.
Same with the “baby brain” comments. What was the context? was that the only overly-familiar thing that Meghan had said?, had she done similar before? had she been asked not to do so already? Were there other complaints about her behaviour (There are reports about her bullying staff that are at least as credible as Harry’s report)
We have no idea what the run up, specifics or aftermath of that incident were other than what Harry finds convenient to tell us and I don’t find him a reliable witness to the extent that I’m going to condemn someone else on his word alone.
Also, remember that Kate had a pretty shitty time through all her pregnancies to the extant that she was pretty debilitated by them for long periods, I can well believe that such an experience might make someone rather sensitive to flippant comments by people they aren’t close to.

The fact that you read anything much into it is indeed evidence of your own admitted biases and a predisposition to believe one side over the other and prefer one side over the other. That’s perfectly human but a solid case it does not make.

162

I don’t think that qualifies as a character reference, who doesn’t have friends who are in the wrong or deluded about things?
I’ll stick my neck out so far as to say that my friends are sometimes deeply flawed people in many ways, there, I’ve said it.

Also, I don’t get the feeling that too many people think he is an evil or terrible person, he has done a lot admirable things and pretty much everyone thinks that he is deeply damaged by his mother’s death.
But it is possible to be basically decent and still set out on a course of action that is hypocritical, vindictive, irrational, misguided, unhelpful and somewhat self-destructive. Believe it or not that even applies to someone who is friends with a famous person you like.

163

I don’t think I claimed it was a “solid” case. I was musing on what “evidence” there is (very little). And why I tend to lean towards Meghan and Harry. I said I don’t know any of them nor do I pretend to understand their motivations. The only … OK “thing” that H and M can produce that shows anything other than “Well she/he said this” were the text messages. Which I did not say were proof of anything.

In essence, I was trying to exam why I find Harry and Meghan believable/sympathetic. I am at least trying to be honest with myself and with the good people here and try not to pillory anyone (except Andrew, screw that guy). I think the entire royal family needs to get the collective sticks out of their asses.

It may well be my sad unintentional exposure to that Piers Morgan asshole and the disgusting Jeremy Clark guy. I’d never heard of Clark before I read here how he wanted her, Meghan, to walk naked down the street and have shit thrown at her, because he hated her on a cellular level. He’s a prat and, a misogynist shit bag. I would have felt the same if he was talking about, Kate, the Queen, Camilla, MTG, random sex workers, etc.

Morgan is just a drama queen extraordinaire. I had sort of heard negative stuff about him, and then I saw him flounce off the set of a Brit talk show when the co-host called him on his Meghan hate.

This naked hatred for someone I/they don’t know may well be why I have this knee jerk reaction for something I never cared about or even thought about until the last year or two. Yeah, life, I need one.

164

Fair enough, there is a natural tendency (on both “sides”) to extrapolate from rather meagre evidence and before you know it the language is no longer speculative but now it is definitive and the uncertain becomes the fact.

It is good to be aware of that possibility and it certainly sounds like you are.

165

Yeah, I kind of viewed it as more of:

“I/we are in a very prominent position, and if we can publicly reconcile, maybe that’s a way of leading by example that would have positive effects everywhere our influence reaches.”

Granted, that’s a very positive spin on the same comment, but it’s an example of how the same sentence can be interpreted wildly differently.

166

100% with Gyrate here. Grew up on a healthy dose and am fully addicted to all those brit shows from dramas and news to Wilty and 8 out of 10 cats…

Grew up in a family that toasts the queen (we had her highlanders in our family). Don’t doubt one iota of what Harry or Meghan have said. The royal family have confirmed it with their behaviour over the last 50 years…

What I’m more shocked by is the fence sitters who give equal weight to a tabloid convicted of more crimes than most mob bosses…

Also the silly fools who think “america doesnt care, and will tire quickly of them” riiiight the land of reality tv doesn’t care… maybe you don’t but the vast majority of your citizens (and my country’s ) do care sadly. As they do about a lot of celeb gossip. Because as one of my fave bands back in the day sings… “high school never ends”…

Even just taking the circumstantial evidence at face value puts me 99.5% in their camp and 0.5% in the “core family”… as someone very familiar with their antics over the years. I’m no Diana worshipper either. Thought of her as an overly nice and in over her head lady who filled her empty days with charity after a loveless marriage to a royal. Shrug pretty much par for the course for any royalty on earth for what, the last 10K years?

Still boggles my mind when anyone gives something like the Daily Mail etc any sort of slack… Although I suppose Charlie’s wife would be happy that most americans have forgotten her actions… I still watch the episodes when it happened though on reruns of mock the week etc.

Frankie Boyle sums it up nicely and probably not even appropriately for the pit…

167

So far as I can tell, America generally sees more than Britain does.

168

I was thinking of the press specifically, but whether family members are involved there are certainly members of the palace staff that are complicit.

That’s adorable. Harry and Meghan could renounce all ties to the royal family and all worldly possessions and go live in a monastery/nunnery in Bhutan, and the press would still camp outside and there would still be millions of people claiming that they were just doing it to seek attention and that they should have done something else. Of course, they’d claim the same thing if H&M did whatever the “other thing” was too, because ultimately haters gonna hate.

Piers Morgan, who is a shitstain of a human being in general, is disturbingly, creepily obsessed with Markle. Under no circumstances should his comments be considered…well, considered at all, really.

I don’t believe that anyone has deigned to give any credence to the rumours to the extent of doing a DNA test (or if they have, they kept it quiet). To the extent I’ve bothered to think about it, the accusations about James Hewitt don’t hold up when you consider the timeline and Harry’s red hair almost certainly comes from the Spencer side, particularly when you compare him to his uncle Charles whom he resembles.

169

no-one would care in the slightest if he sticks it to the press, if he hates the press, go after them. Publically slamming your own family seems an odd way to achieve that.

Oh I know, we can see in action with the masses of press camped outside the doors of the other “spares” Anne and Edward…oh wait. They lead a low-profile life and the press pretty much don’t care. If you make yourself press-worthy they’ll come after you. If you don’t, they won’t.

170

Prince Andrew would be a much closer comparison, and the attention on him and Fergie was pretty relentless for a long, long time.

171

But they were hardly the shy and retiring type were they? That’s my point. They would be a bad example of how to behave if you want to avoid the press.

172

They’ll just need to chill for another twenty years until Will’s kids start dating and everything will be fine.

173

I think that I should put on the table first that I don’t think that we are going to agree about Prince Harry. Knowing this up front allows you the choice as to whether you’ll read the rest of what I’m about to write or just skip over it… which is your choice and your right. I’m not going to make this some knife fight because that’s counter productive ( and wrong ). Who wins in a knife fight anyway? The surgeon who charges by the stitch?
.
.
.
.
Anyway… if you’re still reading I should say that character references are a thing and that some banks used to hold their value as quite high. Would President Obama co-sign a car loan for him? Maybe. I don’t think either of the two are ‘deeply flawed’ though I do think Harry was hurt badly by his treatment by TRF after his mother’s death. I don’t think that any part of that was ‘normal’ or worth the psychic torment.

While it is technically possible that a basically decent human being can set out on a course of action that is “hypocritical, vindictive, irrational, misguided, unhelpful and somewhat self-destructive” I find that examples of this are exceeding rare… both in my experience and in human history. (The percentage seems to be so low as to possibly approach zero, but to avoid an argument I’ll grant that the true percentage of people this applies to of all of the people whom have ever walked the earth lies in a range between 5% and 0%. )

Famous well respected people can and often do distance themselves from people who ‘act badly’… and yet I don’t see the Obamas cutting ties with him at all. I find that compelling.

That said, I must confess that I do not study TRF or write about or draw bribes/income from TRF. This is to say that I’ve never worked for them… or… The Mirror, The Daily Mail, Variety, FOX News, The New York Post, The Weekly World News, The Globe, The National Inquirer, or The Weekly Reader ( which seems to have much better investigative journalism than any of the former ).

Truthfully, my only knowledge of Royalty comes from a bevy of truly badly made Hallmark Movies. ( On a side note, what Does Lacey Chabert do with all of those princes she marries? Does she keep them all in a stable behind her house?

[Lacey Chabert] “Remind me… who’s Prince Wednesday again? Oh, never mind… just put a bit in his mouth, throw a blanket over him, and I’ll take him out for a trot…” [/Lacey Chabert] )

I did however cheat a bit by watching his interview on Colbert last night. He seemed calm, reasonable, thoughtful, respectful, and right on point. Simply put, I saw no reason from the man that sat for that interview for me to not believe him, but that’s just my opinion I guess.

( His worst flaw? Well, I wouldn’t have chosen Tequila… but that’s just me. )

No, I see no reason not to wish him, the love of his life, his beautiful children (and his pets) well through their long and (now) happy lives together.

174

I think this is far, far more common than you might think. Decent people under situations of stress and strain can do very silly things indeed.

Bolding mine, I assume that’s a typo but I like it nonetheless. And quite apt seeing as he mentions in his book that he did get in touch with someone who could bring messages from his dead mother.

175

Perhaps I should have typed ‘mental torment’. For me the meaning is the same. For Example: ‘psychic income’ is the pleasure that one derives from a project which is over and above what can be entered into a ledger for that project.

Good day…

176

“psychic” is a perfectly fine word to use in that context.

177

A (minor) additional piece of evidence is now available: the tailor involved says that all six bridesmaids’ dresses had to be resewn in the four days before the wedding, “as they weren’t going to fit.” The tailor didn’t know anything about the dispute between Meghan and Kate, but four people working multiple days into the middle of the night on six small dresses suggests that Kate might not have been too far off the mark in her complaints about the dresses.

178

Fair enough, Not a phrase I’m familiar with and I simply found the wording strange and amusing given his recent revelations.

179

[aside]This reminds me of Vertigo/DC’s Fables comic book series, which puts all the characters of fairy tales in a modern setting. There, it turns out that the Prince Charming that Sleeping Beauty, Snow White, and Cinderella were all the same person. He was an irresistible suitor but a terrible husband and habitual adulterer. Thus, each of them divorced him.[/aside]

180

Prince Harry is the vestigial remnant of an archaic system that thinks the worth of a person can be determined by the particular set of genitals they are pulled out of at the moment of their birth. From my point of view the best thing for the United Kingdom would be for a King Ralph situation to occur, gathering all the royals together for a photo opportunity followed by a fortuitous lightning strike.

In King Ralph it wasn’t a lightning strike, but the idea of divine providence taking a hand amuses me.