That particular comment, between friendly Americans, means less than nothing. Between Britons who barely know each other, it’s highly inappropriate, and yes, strains the bounds of kind and polite banter. As an American married to a Briton, my husband often takes my words much more gravely than I intend them, simply because in his culture, you’d only verbalize those thoughts if they were serious. Americans verbalize much more trivial things as general social lubricant. So if I were an American woman and in that conversation, I might be surprised or irritated, but I’d know not to take it too seriously. If I were a British woman, I might be a little more shocked and less able to see the innocuousness.
But as I said above, the key is to assume ignorance rather than ill will (you know the other woman is from a different culture), clarify, apologize, and move on.
Maybe we just have different notions of what “friend” means. Friends, to me, are the people I trust implicitly to have my back, the people to whom I can share my emotions, to whom I am bound by a tight bond. Friends are the people who act as my emotional sounding-board, whom I rely upon for assistance, and the relationship is mutual: if you are my friend, I’ll loan you money or bail you out of jail or bring the wine and ice cream when you need to rant at 3am. Just because you join my family, no, I would not automatically consider you somebody to whom I can pour out my deepest thoughts and feelings, and I’d be kind of weirded out if you started pouring out all of your emotions early on. It’s rare that that level of trust and intimacy develops instantaneously; it takes time and learning about each other.
That’s different than being friendly. There’s a difference between “welcome to the family” and “let’s discuss the details of my reproductive system.” For example, my late sister-in-law and I were on friendly terms for more than twenty years; we got along ok, had no quarrels, could discuss recipes and new carpet fine, and I was saddened when she died. We were never friends, because neither of us felt comfortable discussing anything much more meaningful than cooking and who wanted what for Christmas. Our world-views were simply too different: for one easy example, I resented being told to pray about problems at my workplace, and she couldn’t understand why a deep personal relationship with Jesus wasn’t the answer to those problems. I’m certain I irritated her too, but we were friendly and cordial; that didn’t make us friends.
I’ve known my sisters-in-law ( and the ex-sister in law ) for nearly thirty years - and I don’t consider any of them friends. We’re friendly, we are on good terms but in all that time , I haven’t spent so much as an afternoon with one of them that wasn’t a family event. I might not get offended now if one of them made a remark about my hormones * but I probably would have thought it was overly familiar if it had been made shortly after I met her.
* although I did find it odd when one starting talking to me about menopause a couple of years ago because we just don’t have that sort of relationship.
Absolutely. If Her Majesty herself could graciously handle other folks just being human and breaking protocol as a result, you’d think everyone else could somehow manage it too.
Yes. I would consider it rude to say to someone I didn’t already have a close relationship with. I certainly wouldn’t say something like that to prospective in laws that I hadn’t already gotten to know well enough to know whether they appreciated exchanges or jocularity on that level.
OK, I did some checking on what was allegedly said re. “baby brain”. Kate made a comment about how she’d forgotten something innocuous, and Meghan replied that she probably had “Baby Brain” from the pregnancy and hormones. Then, as I understand it, Kate and William requested a meeting to address this insult. OK, I really don’t understand Kate’s offense, but I can buy different culture etc. However, did it require a meeting with both spouses involved. Can Kate not handle her own issues? Harry claims that Kate’s knuckles were white where she was holding the chair? Table? I don’t recall that part. To me this suggests that the pregnancy was playing hell with her (she did have a history of difficulties) and or she was inordinately angry about the incident imho even being from a different culture.
The dress issue. That is verified by texts that Harry and Meghan released. The dress did not fit and made the little one cry. Meghan said that she had the tailor on standby and Kensington and would Kate take take her daughter (I can’t remember the little one’s name) to KP to have it fitted. Kate told Meghan that no the dresses all had to be remade. Meghan again asked her to take the little girl to KP to have the dress fitted (I might add that this is typical for a dress made to order as a final fitting) Kate then replied Fine. So we do know at least some of the circumstances regarding The Dress incident.
OK. If Kate had gotten angry about it in the moment and behaved badly, well, she’s human. Having time to think about it and still deciding you need to schedule a whole other meeting specifically to discuss the “insult” takes it firmly into the realm of “freaking weird”.
Yes, if it all happened as reported it was weird. It particularly struck me that being so angry that you are white knuckled about it is just not normal. The whole relationship among these people is toxic and H and M probably are better off out of it. I don’t blame them for telling their side, though. The tabs and the palace have made them look bad. Most people want to defend themselves.
Probably a cultural thing for me I guess, but I still don’t get the hoorah about the baby brain thing to start with. I was at a bowling league many years ago and was fanning myself. A woman from another team who I barely knew walked up and said in ou best Michigan mid west accent, “Having a flash?” I laughed and said, “Oh man yeah!” I don’t think I knew her name yet. No big deal. I just don’t grock the outrage.
I don’t get the idea that"baby brain" is rude or insulting either. American woman, so likely cultural, I do tend to be fairly reserved with people I don’t know well. But white knuckles?
Good advice from Bridie Jabour of the Guardian: “If you feel compelled to take a side, say the phrase out loud so you can hear how stupid it sounds: “I am on Prince so-and-so’s side!””
“Least said, soonest mended.”
and
“Never complain, never explain.”
and
“If you can’t say anything good, don’t say anything at all.”
Harry has been doing the opposite of these at great length and with considerable enthusiasm. Now, he very well may have some degree of justification for that. However, it is not always wise to “stand on your rights.” Sometimes a softer, more restrained approach is the wiser choice.
George VI didn’t want to be king. I’m not sure if Elizabeth particularly wanted to be queen. Prince Philip didn’t want to be stuffed away in the shadow of his wife. And yet they all stepped up, and did their duty. And they did it magnificently. Why? Because they realized that doing an unpleasant, life-long duty was the price that they needed to pay for their position of privilege. Harry chose the opposite tack.
“I genuinely believe, and I hope, that reconciliation between my family and us will have a ripple effect across the entire world.”
A completely reasonable statement, and not in any way breathtakingly narcissistic. I can totally see Putin announcing “I am withdrawing all troops from Ukraine. If Kate and Meghan can forgive each other for the dress incident, surely we can all put our petty differences aside!” Meanwhile Donald Trump, inspired by Harry’s courageous example, gets therapy and tearfully confesses to the nation that all he ever really wanted was for Barack Obama to be his friend.
Could it be that the problem here is the existence of an institution that inflicts unpleasant lifelong duties on people while simultaneously putting them in positions of extreme privilege? It’s hard to understand how people can look at this family and say “Yes, monarchy is a great idea, look at the wonderful role models it produces!”
I don’t see how reconciliation could be possible. Any reconciliation would have to include some possibility uncomfortable conversations. Putting myself in William’s shoes I wouldn’t even want to try if I felt that anything I said would wind up on Oprah or in a book.
what always shocked me is the timing of the marriage … i mean one day he’s cavorting in vegas hotel fountains with nude showgirls and a few months later he’s getting married?
I mean it seems like there was a “time to get serious” moment discussion with himself or others and he sort of picked the nicest girl that would say yes … since allegedly the earlier girlfriends didn’t want anything to do with the “being a royal” part of it
I’m not British, but as an Australian have sort of followed the trials and tribulations of the Royals for years…my marriage was the same year as Charles and Diana, and William and Harry born in same years as my first two kids. It was sort of interesting to compare our respective lives and lifestyles
Now I’ve always liked Harry the best. The red hair and the cheekiness endeared him to me. I didn’t follow the kids much after Diana died, not reading tabloid mags etc meant it was harder to keep up. And to be honest, I wasn’t that vested in their lives!
Having said that, I still like Harry. I think he’s been given the raw prawn by the Firm, and the scrofulous media have been awful to him and Meghan. But I wish he would now just shut the fuck up. He’s said his piece, he’s been heard, and now is the time to slink back into relative obscurity to enjoy life as a regular bloke with a wife and kids.
The marketing staffs for both H&M and The Firm are jumping up and down with glee. this i is the perfect scandal and takes the spotlight away from the wrong kind of scandal, e.g. Andrew fucking minors on a private jet.
All through most of the 20th century, TRF has been going from one scandal to the next. The 60’s, a time when things were much more ‘stiff upper lip’, was particularly salacious with Margret and Earl Snowdon, but even Mrs. Simpson served her purpose almost a century ago. The Firm needs publicity to stay relevant. Bad publicity spreads faster and energizes a lot more than positive. And since the UK tabloids are famously horrible, TRF can always take the high road and let the trash wrestle the pigs.
A spat between the spouses of the crown prince and the fifth in line has resulted in how many posts on an obscure American MB? Multiplied by magnitudes of different digital platforms, tv interviews raging pundits ASF. It’s beautiful.
A number of posters have said that they don't give a shit. But if the world in general didn't give a shit and TRF was met with complete, worldwide silence, how long would it take for it to fade into total obscurity? A decade maybe?
I don’t really think he feels reconciliation with his family will bring world peace etc. Maybe he meant toxic tabs, better relationships for the Royals, better communications in families? I dunno’ maybe someone will ask him and not assume.
Seriously, I’ve never been a big Royal Watcher. I sort of saw where things went with Diana; you couldn’t avoid it, and I wasn’t even much of a news watcher at that time. I’d been aware of the brewing tempest with the two royal couples. I watch news now, and I couldn’t avoid that either, though I usually skip print items about royal watching.
When they stepped down and started doing interviews it caught my attention from the sheer unusual nature of it. Plus, Meghan is American and was a successful actress. It surprised me that she married a royal. I figured she must love him to do that.
All in all the royals as a whole appear to be a very dysfunctional family that tries to keep it all hidden behind, closed doors, royalty, and stiff upper lip/closed lips traditions.
The fact is I don’t know these people, I don’t pretend to know their motivations, and I can’t read their minds. I am going by what “evidence” is available, what seems believable, the little solid evidence there is (the text messages about “The Dress” incident)
and my own biases.
I tend to like Harry and Meghan, I tend to feel less charitable towards Kate and William. Why? Maybe because I’m culturally more aligned with Meghan? I am pretty sure racism at least unconscious is a big factor in the treatment of Meghan. I’m trying to be honest with myself about why I’m more sympathetic to H and M. I can’t help feeling like William and Kate need to get the huge sticks out of their asses. Maybe that’s why Harry is being so strident. Maybe he thinks if they (as in the whole clan) can’t hide their issues they’ll face them.
Hell, I’m trying to figure out why I give a shit about any of it, because modern royal hi-jinks have never interested me before. Yet here I am posting a novel about it. I probably need a life.
