Why? Who does it hurt?
Despicable why? Who’s the victim?
I agree with clairobscur on this one. I think a woman has a right to abort a fetus, but I don’t think that right’s absolute, and I think that if people start having abortions for sex selection (or like the OP, for sexual orientation selection), that’s something where society has to step in, because I think that’s detrimental to the society as a whole.
That’s a tough one.
My parents were (yes, “were”…long story so take my word for it) homophobic. One of my brothers is gay and my parents are very conservative. While they were not complete shit heads that they’d disown him they were distinctly and utterly not cool with the gay lifestyle. Things changed eventually but not till he was in his early 30’s.
So, he was subjected to misery…not as bad as some migh inflict but misery just the same. The story is waaaay too long to tell here and probably not of interest.
My point though is he is a remarkable person. Truly one of the finest human beings I know and I do not say that because he is my brother (I have two others and a sister who I love but would not describe that way). This is not hyperbole…he is a great guy by any measure you care to use (except marrying a woman and having babies). This ultimately, painfully, brought my parents around eventually. They never were totally cool with it but they learned to accept it.
As such I have a hard time aborting a baby to avoid the hell its parents will put them through. I do not wish a hard time on a child either but given my brother and what he has brought to my life and others it’d be a tragedy if he had not lived (FWIW we were all adopted in the 60’s…had Roe happened before then none of us would likely be here).
Bottom line, for all the hell he went through growing up, he is a very happy and very successful individual now. I am sure, despite the pain of growing up, he’d wish to have been “spared” all that and aborted.
I just do not see what gives me the right to decide if some woman should have a kid or not. How does my value system overpower her right as a human being to live her own life without outside interferences.
Is the only measure of right-or-wrong in your world decided by measurable harm to another?
Perhaps the victim could be said to be the woman herself.
Perhaps the father of the baby.
Perhaps her family.
I am clear that it is the woman’s choice to make but I do not think it is a choice made lightly with no moral implications.
Your brother didn’t have it as bad as the child in this hypothetical. I don’t mean that in any way to diminish what your brother went through. He experienced real pain in the real world. This is an impossible hyothetical and so I don’t want you to feel I’m dismissing anything he or your family went through.
But look at this scenario as described in the OP. The parents know before the child is ever born. They don’t like it already. It’s a mockery of their beliefs or a sin against god or the devil’s own spawn. Whatever. They don’t like the fetus for being gay.
But their conflicting beliefs prevent them from getting an abortion. So imagine what it’s like for this child. Does he steal his sister’s Barbie doll at age two? It’s his devil side coming out and a clear sign of the abomination he’ll grow up to be. Did she take her brother’s baseball? Better get that little dyke in a dress and back to her tea party pronto.
Imagine your whole life being an attempt to “cure” you of being gay. Not just your parents hating you, disowning you, or condeming your lifestyle. Remember all those lefties who had to learn to write with their right hand? It’ll be worse. And it will start at birth and never end. How high do you think the suicide rate for LGBT teens will be then?
An ugly, ugly reason to have an abortion, but it should be legal.
Yeah. I mean, it’s a dick move, comparable to aborting based on eye color, but I’d have to allow it based on simple consistency.
I didn’t say “opposed to gay marriage,” I said “anti-gay.”
I disagree. I think a woman should be able to have a (non-harmful to herself) abortion for any or no reason at all. Multiple ones. On a whim, if she wants to. I think a woman can even get pregnant just to have an abortion, should she so choose.
Why?
Because it’s *her *body AND a foetus is not worth considering as a moral participant, so it’s *entirely *her will that matters.
The burden should be on society: to adjust itself into a place where people don’t want to make those sorts of discriminatory choices, by being a society of equality and respect for all people, not to dictate to women what to do with their bodies.
Read my past posts.
I agree.
It is the woman’s choice. It has to be. I’m totally with that.
That does not mean the woman shouldn’t consider the effects of her actions and it does not mean you or I or whoever can’t question her choice.
I wouldn’t exactly be singing the woman’s praises, but only because she was a homophobe, not because she had an abortion.
Although her being a homophobe is about as much my business as her abortion, as long as she’s not rubbing it in my face (now there’s an image that will be hard to shift).
Not really. I figure she can also have an abortion if her psychic advisor told her the child carried a bad omen, or if the month has an “R” in it, or any reason at all, or no reason at all, because I don’t see why she needs to give a reason to exercise a right.
She didnt become pregnant through Divine Intervention. I’m definitely pro-choice, but to think that a fetus only “belongs” to her mother is incredibly wrong in my eyes. If that’s really what it comes to, then no woman should be allowed to sue a father for not recognizing their child and not supporting the baby. You cant have both.
That said, in countries where there still is a debate over abortion, I can understand why pro-choice rethorics would be a bit over the top.
P.S: to answer the O.P., no, it shouldnt be legal to abort for that reason.
What do you figure is the bare-minimum acceptable reason? What’s the rock-bottom line-of-least-resistance standard a woman must meet?
Heck, there was a time when a couple needed a reason to get divorced and some couples colluded to claim there was a strong implication one had cheated, or that one was “mentally cruel” to the other, or some other pretext. Was it true? Who knows? They wanted a divorce and chose the lowest-burden reason their venue allowed.
Why not? It’s following the pattern of every one of his “gotcha” threads.
I believe a woman should have the right to choose to have an abortion for any reason she deems important.
OP, I open and read all your threads because you do start some good ones.
This ain’t one of them.
I have to say yes, because someone else’s decision isn’t mine to tolerate. I can despise it and disagree w/ them till I’m blue in the face but I have no say in their choice. Otherwise it’s okay for them to decide for me what my choices should be.
-Medical (the pregnancy is harmful to the mother, heavy disabilities the kid might have)
-economical (the family -I include single mothers in this category- can not provide for the child)
I’m wary to include the rape thing because, that’s a no brainer, and I doubt it happens as often as it is talked about.
Now we come to the murky zone: convenience.
I’m uneasy with this one, but I can understand a woman not wanting a baby at this point in her life.
As I said above, where the debate is tense, pro-choicers tend to go for “absolutist” rethorics, mainly because it is a tug-of-war with the anti-abortionists, and the middle position will be the one society settles upon.
I dont consider abortion to be a wondeful thing, but a lesser evil.
And in a perfect world I dont think the mother should take the decision alone. Of course, in a perfect world, you wouldnt have run-away dads that make abortion something the mother would want to have in the first place.
In the end, it’s a compromise, not an absolute.