“The future Darth Vader frolicking in the grass with his girlfriend? My God, why have you forsaken me?”
It shouldn’t have been written at all.
Guys, let’s drop the abortion debate hijack – it’s only going to reinforce Curtis’s convictions that he was right to comment.
A couple of things. I acknowledge CL’s post as being a step but the sheer brevity of it makes me think he’s trying to put a band-aid on the hemorrhaging going on here. He literally said the least amount possible to convey that message. What about a little genuine discourse. We’ve seen his posts in the past, we know he’s capable of it. I would have rather him come in and say, “Sorry you all don’t agree, but that’s the way I feel and I had a right to post it”. At least that would have been honest.
Second, did you even bother to read the post I linked to? I ask what were the sources of his ideas and made it clear it was not my intention to ridicule him for those answers. Anyone who posts on these boards cannot get away with calling someone who is considering abortion murderers and not getting called to cite the reasons for thinking so without incurring the responses he’s gotten. I think it would be helpful for him and this discussion if we could discuss the merits of his foundation of why he believes as he does because I really don’t he’s put any real thought of his own into it, instead I’m guessing he’s merely parroting what he’s heard. I would like to hear from him what he knows about embryos, for example.
FriarTed said “Curtis should have been more sensitive, but he had no obligation to keep his mouth shut.”
I totally agree with that. But that’s not the issue. Curtis came here looking for support. Most here believe his religious view of this is wrong and his rude way of delivering those ideas are wrong. No one is debating his right to say what he did.
I’ll encourage Mr. LeMay to fullest if he will actually steps up to the plate. Curtis?
No, we do it because the anti-abortionists are trying to use it as a wedge issue to get killing fetuses declared legally murder, to bolster their arguments against abortion. You can justify them as I did…but that wasn’t why the laws were proposed in the first place.
No; rape IS “unauthorized rubbing” of a particular sort, which is why I used the term. It’s the emotional trauma that makes it such a serious crime.
No, the Angel in Luke’s Nativity never tells her she’s pregnant, he tells her “you will be with child and give birth to a son.” She asks how that’s possible since she is a virgin and he says, “the Holy Spirit will come upon you” (unfortunate choice of words, I know). Then Mary goes to visit Elisabeth and greets her. Then it says, “When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.”
It doesn’t say the baby recognized Jesus. Mary wasn’t pregnant yet.
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Yes, the Bible draws a line. Even in your example, it does not value infabnts less than a month old, but Exodus 21 (I got the book wrong, sorry, it was Exodus, not Leviticus), if someone hits a pregant woman and causes a miscarriage but no other harm is done, the guy just has to pay a fine of the husband’s choosing, which seems to imply it’s not even a crime if the husband does it, and it does not call it murder or impose the penalty for murder (which is death).
Here’s the passage:
[indent]If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.
23And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,
24Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,
25Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe.
9Ex. 21:22-25).
I would agree with you, except that Curtis does this all the freaking time.
It could just be a symbolic saying that was taken by some to think Jesus was actually giving His body or blood. The word “is” can mean just a symbol. Like a lover telling his beloved,“Here’is’ my heart take it and say we will never part”. The lover is not really taking his heart out of it’s body, nor did Jesus let His apostles bite him to eat His flesh,or actually drink his blood.
Some people look at a fertile egg and belive it is a baby, that is their belief and they have the right to belive it is so, but if they are truly Pro-life( not just pro-birth) then they should be more willing to sacrifice for the already born and be as adament about the people already born who are suffering hunger etc. all over the world.
Jesus was not a sanctimonious prick, He stood up for the sinners and chided the fundamentlists( the Pharisees for one).He called them white washed tombs, hypocrites etc…
There is human Life in sperm and overies,so in other words if one ejaculates many human lives are lost? Life is a passed on thing ,proven by the generations of people since they appeared on earth, even if one believes in the Genesis account!
Leviticus says that the penalty for klilling a child up to 5 years of age is a fine. Is your point that the old testament drew a line that we would not draw today?
“Leviticus 27:6
If the person is from a month old up to five years old, your valuation shall be…”
5 shekels for a boy and 3 shekels for a girl.
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That is NOT what Leviticus 27 is about- it’s about the payment to be released from special vows made to YHWH. Nothing to do with fines taking a life.
Btw- the Exodus passage is about accidentally causing a miscarriage, or as many pro-life Jews regard it, causing a premature birth- with further penalties attached to any harm done to the mother OR the child. The fine has nothing to do with a deliberate attack on the mother or the child.
Also, while Jesus said nothing about abortion maybe it was for the same reason he said nothing about bestiality. Every Jew knew the latter was totally forbidden. The early Christian document The Didache sure said something about it- it was a cause for excommunication. Also, the NT references against drug-using sorcery (pharmakaia) may well have applied to abortifacients.
Did you read the post I was quoting? You’ve been completely whooshed.
Winner!
Pardon me for doubting you, but I don’t think he said any of those things. If he had, they would be in red.
Curtis, do let us know if you apologized to the parents on that other board. If they’re struggling with depression (and their marriage), any expression of empathy or sorrow from you may help greatly. It is never too late to try to undo a mistake.
Deep down under the outrage and recreational mockery, we are pulling for you. Most of us were wise-asses, and made plenty of social mistakes. Many of us here were happy to see your acknowledgment of your insensitivity. Keep it up. Growing up’s tough, but the alternative’s worse.
I just read the closed thread on the other board.
Your second post - the one about the pill was the slap in the face.
Fuck no, he hasn’t apologized and shows no signs of doing so.
More’s the pity - it would not only be the right thing to do, it would improve his standing in both communities.
I’ll be perfectly honest, i read the thread title and agreed with it 100%.
Do you think that might be perhaps because people think of the fetus as being a human life?
Why is it that harsher penalties for killing pregnant women (and in some cases, causing a miscarriage) are the result of political expediance while opposing restrictions on abortion are not?
Didn’t you just say it was because of the emotional trauma? Now its a conspiracy by the pro-lifers to try and convince people that fetuses are people too?
So if the rape victim didn’t wasn’t really traumatized by the rape, it wouldn’t be rape? WTF are you talking about?
The charge of murder isn’t some sort of placeholder for the emotional distress of the expectant parents. The charge of murder is a charge of murder. It might be that there are reasons why we should allow abortions in some (even most) circumstances despite the fact that we would call it murder if done without the permission of the mother but lets not pretend that it is morally indistinguishable from an appendectomy.
Because the people who push the laws for harsher penalties are anti-abortionists who have a known and malignant agenda. Because they are people who show no concern for either fetuses or children except how to use them as weapons against women. And they probably are quite happy that the woman ended up dead.