OK, I am dating a girl (19 and in college), and, while we haven’t talked much about it before, she’s very religous and very pro-life. Basically, my opposite.
About a week ago, she found out she was pregnant and has decided that an abortion is the way to go. She’s feeling guilty about it, but she’s still going through with it. Even though, if you had asked her a week ago what she thought of the whole situation, she would have been against it.
In addition, she’s actually cheating on her boyfriend, who thinks it’s his baby and is also pro-life, though he wants her to get an abortion too. Of course, he says that’s what he wants, then he says he doesn’t know how that will affect their relationship later on.
Anyways, my experience with pro-life people being limited to her and her family, I can only conclude that Pro-Life people are all a bunch of hypocrites who say one thing, then do another as soon as their high-falutin’ morals get in the way.
I think that it’s very easy to believe in one thing in the abstract, then find that when you’re faced with the situation that your actual response is very different than what you expected it to be.
I also think, without passing judgement on either of them, that it’s possible that she’d rather keep the baby, and/or would be more comfortable either keeping it or giving it up for adoption, but that the father is putting undue pressure on her to abort.
Either way, I don’t think I have the right to judge her choice as hypocracy, nor his.
As far as her family goes, you certainly can’t judge them by her actions. After all, they may not even know that she’s pregnant. Without knowing that, it’s impossible to say whether they are acting in a hypocritical fashion or not.
Well, anytime you post a generalization like that, there are going to be disagreements…this is one, pretty much just on general principle.
Really, though…think logically here. You know exactly one family of pro-lifers. This is one family out of what…10,000? 100,000? Don’t know how many pro-lifers there actually are in the US. But there’s a lot more than one family.
If I said “Anyways, my experience with Jewish people being limited to a slut like her and her greedy, grasping family, I can only conclude that Jewish people are all a bunch of money-grubbing, sexually promiscuous bastards,” there’d be a general outrage on this board and in the general population, I’m sure. Pro-life people tend to believe the same things, do the same type of things, etc. But that doesn’t mean they’re all alike. I know many pro-lifers who are, for political purposes, pro-choice. They don’t like abortion. They wouldn’t get one if the situation was about them. But they don’t feel that they can dictate that to another human being. Regardless of their personal choices and beliefs, when it comes to social action, they’re pro-choice.
Not flaming or digging here…just so you know. I’m just disagreeing and trying to explain why.
If my experience with something was only with one person and their family, I’d probably choose not to come to a conclusion yet. Although you sound pretty open to hearing dissenting opinion :rolleyes:
And I also think that perhaps changing your mind on an issue isn’t hypocritical so much as…well, changing your mind on an issue. I’m 28 years old and STILL don’t have all of my viewpoints hammered out.
jarbaby
You are forming a sweeping opinion about a very large and heterogeneous group of people on a exceedingly small sample of data.
Furthermore, you seem quite judgmental about the decision to abort. Did it ever occure to you that you may not in fact be the father, thus, you ultimately may have absolutely nothing to say about this decision. (Putting aside the fact that you girlfriend ought to have the final word anyway.)
Let’s get real here: you’re dating a woman who you describe as “very religious” and in the same post say that she’s a) cheating on her boyfriend and b) having sex with both her nominal boyfriend and you out of wedlock.
Either the religion you’re referring to is one whose church is so sex-filled it puts a whorehouse to shame, or this “very religious” girl ain’t so religious after all.
That said, I’d have to say that her pro-life beliefs were lip-service to the religion she was raised with, and her sudden about-face when it became inconvenient to her personally is more a statement about her herself than about pro-lifers in general.
Making general statements based on a small sample is never a good idea (<-- generalization made on the basis of a large sample), but even more so when the sample is - and it doesn’t take much to determine that, in this case - not representative.
And you start this thread to complain about your girlfriend’s hypocrisy over what must be a very difficult decision?
And you don’t mind the fact that you’re cheating with her?
And you don’t feel any concern or angst over this situation, seeing as your the father, or even any sympathy for your girlfriend?
I think you are either lying in which case you’re not worth talking too, or else you insensitive/morally bankrupt/self-centered as to border on the inhuman, in which case you’re not worth talking to either.
I’m betting and hoping on the former. Methinks you’re full of shit. This story is holier than cheese.
All are given a chance to parade down the hallway lined on both sides with Dopers. But don’t forget we hold the whips of reason. And we’ll use them, oh yes.
I know a woman who was active in the pro-life movement (who is no longer so) who drove her 14 year old daughter to the clinic. A turning point for her.
I know a woman who was very pro-life, who became accidentally pregnant as a teenager and put the baby up for adoption, but not before considering abortion. She is now pro-choice.
I, myself, was a “good Catholic girl” (although not very religious) who became pro-choice following a missed period. I’d thought I’d do what all “good Catholic girls” do, which is get married immediately.
Therefore, I agree with Dogsbody in that its very easy to believe one thing, and, when faced with the decision, find you feel another way. Especially on this topic.
There are plenty of people who do stick to their values when pressed, but some who discover that they really don’t believe what they though when it was an abstract concept.
Okay, so I’m not trying to sound overly critical here, but with myself being very religous I find it hard to believe that one can just “give up” their values on a whim. Sure, pregnancy is something that can be tramatic when it happens, and that may cause someone to re - evaulate their “values”, but if they were so run by those values, I doubt that they would have had sex outside of marriage in the first place.
With no offense to Dangerosa, I doubt any “good catholic girl” would chose to have sex knowing that their religion was against it. Key word being “good catholic girl.” If their faith were so strong then their values would not need to be “re - evaluated.” (yes, people make mistakes because no one is human, but I doubt one mistake would pursuade someone to change what they believe about abortion.)
As for my last comment, I will admit that I am not a woman, nor have been faced with this situation, so maybe experience being the teacher is lacking in me. If anyone wishes to attack what I said, take that in mind, and also that I admit that I lack any past dealings with abortion.
And to answer the first post, no not all pro life people are like that. I do know several OTHER people who have made mistakes and decided to give the child up for adoption rather than have an abortion.
That’s what the quotes around “good Catholic girl” and the not very religious comment were about. Lots and lots of “good Catholic girls” have sex outside marriage. And lots and lots of Catholic first babies are born seven months after the wedding. Although, some truly good Catholic girls do wait for sex. Different sins “weigh” differently - murder for instance is not the same as telling your spouse he looks good in that shirt. And the moral of sex outside marriage carries a very different weight the the moral of abortion for a lot of people.
Some people DO give up their values. Values are not unchangable. Sometime they change slowly over time, as new information is presented. Sometimes they change quickly, in reaction to crisis. I would not characterize an unexpected pregnancy as giving them up “on a whim.” An unplanned pregnancy is A BIG DEAL no matter how you choose to deal with it, and no matter when it happens. Nor would deciding God has forsaken you and becoming Atheist after watching your child die of cancer (as happened to a friend of mine, who would have described himself as “very religious”). Some people react in crisis by becoming more religious, some become less religious. Read the writings of Holocaust surviviors for a good idea of the variations in reactions to the same circumstances. (Please note that I am NOT equating an unplanned pregnancy to being a Holocaust survivor).
As far as being very religious being the deciding factor, there are former ministers and priests who have become Atheists and Agnostics, and former Atheists and Agnostics who have become very religious. People change.
Its hard to gage whether someone else is very religious. I think its hard for a lot of people to tell this about themselves.
Dangerosa, I agree with what you say, but my arguement is: How faithful really is someone for them to “change” their values. Yes, events such as pregnancy make someone change, but to me that would seem like a half assed faith.
Basically I dont see hypocracy in someone changing from pro life like that, I see someone who doesnt have that strong of a faith.
This probably has a lot to do with her decision to abort the baby. If she were to carry it to term, and it didn’t look like her boyfriend, and he demanded a paternity test (which of course would be negative), he’d wave Siyonara to her faster than you can say “Chronosynclastic Infundibulum!”.
Point Taken: If she doesnt know who the father is, did she really have any values in the first place? Maybe im mistaken but I usually equate the pro life with no sex outside of marriage - as in the people who cherish those values. (yes, sexual sin isnt the same degree as murder.)
For a girl to not know who the father is makes me doubt the original girl in question was a devout pro life.
The two groups do have a high degree of overlap, but they are not identical. There are liberal anti-abortionists who have a very “free and open” attitude toward sex.
Just because you are promiscuous doesn’t mean you have no values. I hate to say it, but my mother was promiscuous, but she has raised me very well and i have a good set of values. Adults and kids like me.
There are lots of hypocrytes. But i would only call her a hypocryte if she is still pro-life, and if she is, dump her. She doesn’t deserve your time.
