Pro-Life = Giant Hypocrites?

Great Debates
41

It’s worth remembering: EVERY sin/crime we condemn or attempt to outlaw (no matter WHAT our moral code is) is attractive! There’s no movement to outlaw barefoot tap-dancing on broken glass, because nobody ever wants to DO that! Nobody condemns gargling with Drano, because there aren’t any sinners DOING that!

It stands to reason that if there’s a law prohibiting something, or a moral stigma attached to something, there MUST be loads of people who do it or want to do it. That’s as true of abortion as it is of anything else. I consider abortion repulsive and utterly immoral. But I also understand that there’d be no NEED for a right-to-life movement if abortion weren’t attractive.

And, as with ANY moral issue, many of the die-hard moralists are hypocrites. That’s a shame, but that’s reality. Fact is, there’s only one kind of person who’s NEVER a hypocrite: the kind that has no values or morals of any kind in the first place. If you have ANY beliefs, ANY principles, there’s always a chance you’ll be too weak or too selfish to live up to them.

Are there Sierra Club members who fancy themselves environmentalists, but who drive gas-guzzling SUVs? You bet!
Are there rabid, vocal patriots who found excuses to avoid serving in Viet Nam? Absolutely. Are there rich liberals who claim to support integration, but who send their kids to lily-white private schools? Sure. Any family values advocates who cheat on their spouses? Yep.

But are the values those people CLAIM to believe in invalidated just because they don’t live up to them? I don’t think so. Nor do I think ANYONE should simply jettison his/her principles the moment they become inconvenient.

And make no mistake about it, principles ARE damn inconvenient sometimes! I’m happily married, and think adultery is sinful. But I also understand why it’s attractive, and I KNOW it’s a sin I’m perfectly capable of. I HOPE I’m strong enough and decent enough to live up to my principles here (mind you, I’m not terribly handsome, so opportunities to cheat don’t come up often!). But if I’m ever selfish enough to violate my beliefs and betray my wife, I HOPE I have a LEAST the decency to acknowledge what a rotten thing I did, rather than decide (conveniently) that adultery isn’t really such a bad thing after all.

I think the problem with the woman described in the original post is this: when she formed her beliefs about abortion, she never imagined HERSELF being in a position where it might be tempting. Like many of us, she found it easy to condemn a sin she associated solely with OTHER people! ALL of us find it very easy to condemn things that hold no appeal for us. It’s harder to condemn activities that DO appeal to us, at one time or another.

42

Dr. Lao

No, Dr. Lao, I’m afraid it’s ceratonin. See this post. You see, there was some scientist guy in Newsweek, and so science has found out all about God now because of ceratonin or else because of something we don’t know.

Tracer

Well, it’s taking longer than we thought.

43

I dont know if I’d consider this hypocracy any more than I’d consider the death penalty a hypocritical endeavor. I disagree wholeheartedly with blowing up abortion clinics because I personally feel that they provide crucial services that we have the right to (at least for now) but I can also put myself in the mindset of a pro-lifer and look at an abortion doctor as a mass murderer. We put mass murderers to death all of the time in this country and it is acceptable and even encouraged by the masses. Why? To protect the rest of us (and outright placation of self-righteousness, lets not kid ourselves).

They blow up abortion clinics to save the “babies” whose development would’ve ended in the future had the building remained.

So yeah… while I dont consider it hypocracy, I do consider it a bad idea.

44

So, malkavia and anyone else: if abortion were illegal, would you still do it? or have done it?

45

I know several women who had abortions before 1973 when it was illegal…and I’d support a women in that decision.

This gets to a part of the abortion debate that bugs me…I am at a point in my life now where I am very unlikely to need or want an abortion. My daughter is very young, eventually she will be at the point in life where there is the possiblity she will need or want an abortion. However, because we are fairly well off, if abortion were ever to become illegal here, we could send her out of the country rather easily to get a legal abortion. This is what the wealthy do the world over in countries where abortion is illegal (and there are few restrictions on travel - obviously this ruse doesn’t work in Afganistan.)

So no, I wouldn’t have an illegal abortion - I’d have a safe legal one in another country. However, that seems pretty classist, that there is an easy way for the wealthy (and middle class) to avoid the law, while the poor are forced to carry their pregnancies to term.

46

Yes, but that’s after a trial, appeals, defense vs. prosecution, sentencing, and all that other due process stuff. Unless you’re in Texas, in which case they off you if it makes the governor look good :slight_smile: (joke!) Abortion-clinic-bombers and doctor-shooters haven’t gone through any of that.

I’m not sure offhand, but I don’t think supporters of the death penalty are the majority in the US.

47

It seems pretty obvious to me that this girl is NOT pro-life. I think this is more of an issue of idiots adopting causes that they don’t really believe in just for the sake of feeling important and issue-driven. That kind of idiocy drives me insane. I wish that people would think for themselves and decide what they actually think about issues before they throw themselves into a blind opinion.

Personally, I am VERY pro-life and would never, ever have an abortion. Ever. I, thankfully, have never gotten pregnant and had to decide what to do about the baby, but I can guarantee that abortion would not be on my list of choices.

48

Pike may have been a troll…but then again, perhaps this hostility and bashing of pro-lifers was just Pike’s way of venting anger/disappointment/frustration about his girlfriend aborting his (sounds like he’s the father) baby.
In which case, perhaps he finds it painful to look back at this thread, let alone answer the replies here. Pike, if you do need someone to talk to about your feelings, you may want to visit the messageboards at http://www.afterabortion.com (mostly geared to women, but it does recognize men can be affected too)

Frankly, I find it kind of hard to believe that someone would make such a sweeping generalization based on one person…but, if he was sincere in this note…

First of all, many of us pro-lifers do truly mean what we say.
As a young woman of child-bearing age myself, I am confident that if faced with an unexpected pregnancy I would not abort. I’ve learned from the experiences of others (see below) that violating one’s ethics on such a crucial issue is not worth the pain. Sadly, some people don’t have the opportunity to learn that lesson before it happens to them firsthand.

It’s not a given that this girl is really a “hypocrite” or even that she really has changed her mind about abortion. The fact that she feels guilty about aborting does suggest that, on some level, she STILL believes that abortion is taking a life. Unfortunately, the popular notions about abortion makes it difficult for some women to follow their heart and be true to their ethics.

I am willing to bet this girl has heard plenty about how abortion is a simple procedure and a woman’s right (despite the long term existence of pro-life feminists ), but probably very little about the other side of the story.

For a pro-lifer who is not very well informed on things like where to get help or what the embryo/fetus/baby looks like, it is easy to succumb to pressures (internal or external) to “just get rid of the problem”…even if that goes against her heart and conscience.

I’m sure there are some hypocritical post-abortion pro-life women, but I believe most of them have a genuine basis for becoming pro-life. Some women find out abortion is a lot more difficult than they realized when they were making the decision. I think they have a right to regret their decision, to want to warn others, to want to prevent others from making the same mistake. I am grateful to those post-abortion women who have spoken up despite the risk of being deemed hypocritical, as they’ve taught me and perhaps many others to avoid the same painful ordeal.

Oh, and as for the connection between promiscuity and pro-life views…I think of it this way: It would be quite bizarre to meet a conservative religious person who condemned premarital sex yet embraced infanticide. However, it wouldn’t be at all strange to meet someone who condemned infanticide despite favoring premarital sex. In terms of the degree of potential harm done to innocent people, I think abortion ranks higher than consensual sex by most people’s standards.

49

Spathiphyllum,

Much of what you say is very true. Pro-life feminists do exists, and aren’t given much of a voice. Pro-Choice Republicans exist too. Its hard to believe in a majority of an organizations platform, and then get drowned out on a vital, but minority issue.

And many, many pro-lifers are sincere.

I disagree, however, on your protrayls of the “popular” notions of abortion, or how much information is available from each side. I think both sides have a ton of information out in the public. Pro-Lifers have an admirable PR machine cranking out “their side of the story.” Pro-life brochures are often found at the backs of churches, pro-life advertising happens on national TV. Then you have the less than honest pro-lifers who offer “decision counseling” where they show pictures of aborted fetuses and those that hand out pro-life (and rather gross) brochures to every woman walking into a college student health center. I find it hard to believe - in a country where the pro-life movement is so visable, that a pregnant woman wouldn’t know where to find pro-life resources. I’m not young enough to care, and yet I know of three pro-life walk in centers within 3 miles of my home. I find it much easier to believe that she has had access to all this information in the past, and is choosing to ignore it under her present circumstances.

I know women who have regretted their abortions. It certainly does happen. And I know women who have never given it another thought. It also happens that people regret placing their children for adoption. And they regret having them and choosing to raise them. There is no GOOD option for a woman faced with an unwanted pregnancy. ANY path chosen can lead to guilt and regret. It is interesting that I’ve met two women who have gone both the adoption and the abortion route, both regret the adoption far far more than the abortion. But that is a sample size of two.

And I’ve yet to meet a pro-Choice person who encourages abortion - I’m sure that they are out there, but the vast majority of them are pro-CHOICE, not pro-Abortion nor anti-life. Several of my pro-choice friends have chosen, when faced with an unexpected preganacy, to parent and I know several pro-choice birthmoms.

50

[/quote]

And, as with ANY moral issue, many of the die-hard moralists are hypocrites. That’s a shame, but that’s reality.

[quote]

And I thought the OP was the only one with completely unfair, gross overgeneralizations.

My gut feeling is the OP was fishing, using lies as bait, and caught quite a few.

51

I stated that there are hypocrites attached to EVERY moral cause. For that, I’m accused of unfair, gross overgeneralization.

Sorry, but it’s true. No matter how noble you think your favorite cause is, it’s a fact of life that some of those who embrace it are phonies. That’s true whether you’re on the left or the right, whether you’re religious or not.
And whether you like it or not, your enemies are going to point to such hypocrites, in order to discredit YOU.

As I asked earlier, ARE there Christians who preach family values, while cheating on their wives? Of course! Ask Jimmy Swaggart.

ARE there self-professed environmentalists who bespoil the environment? Absolutely (Henry David Thoreau burned down much of the forest he rhapsodized about, and tree-hugging John Denver built underground gasoline tanks on his COlorado estate).

ARE there gun-control advocates who secretly own guns? Ask left-wing columnist Carl Rowan!

ARE there foreign-policy hawks (Pat Buchanan comes to mind) who found dubious excuses to avoid military service?

ARE there liberals who advocate bussing and affirmative action, but keep there kids in all-white schools? Devout Catholics who claim to be pro-life, but who’d take their daughters to an abortionist in a second, if an inconvenient pregnancy happened?

Yes, across the board. It can’t be helped. No matter WHAT you hold dear, it’s a safe bet that there are plenty of hypocrites on your side, just as there are on mine.

As far as I’m concerned, that changes nothing. IF you believe in protecting the environment, John Denver’s hypocrisy may embarrass you, but it DOESN’T prove that all environmentalists are frauds, nor does it undermine the essence of your cause. And the fact that some self-professed pro-lifers are hypocrites embarrasses me, but it doesn’t change MY beliefs a whit.