I’m happy to let our fellow forumers judge whether I’ve made an effective argument re. the 1950s.
And if you’re told to evacuate because you’re in the middle of a war zone, does this mean that you give up all future rights to your property? Just a yes or no.
So you’re agreeing with me that until a bunch of Jewish religious fanatics decided to try and set up a new state in another country, there was a negligible Jewish population in Palestine. Excellent.
Um, no…I’m not. I’m putting the figures into context which, sadly, is beyond you, since you are so biased on this issue. It was interesting that you (or your cite) would pick the particular time frame they did and then you would only post the raw table. Interesting, no? The anti-Evolution crowd uses almost exactly the same tactic…
I’m picking 1880 because that’s when the Zionist movement started to organise, to raise funds to send settlers to Palestine to settle. That’s why the professor who wrote the book picked that date! If you look back to your own numbers you can see from 1600 Jews were 2% of the population. In 1880 it was 3%. Once organised immigrtion started it went up. That’s the context.
The fact that you think that the early Zionists were “religious fanatics” proves that you are completely and utterly ignorant of the issues you are discussing. Seriously - you might as well say that Israel was founded by gay samurai piano tuners, and you’d be nearly as close to the truth. There’s a old Jewish saying: “the empty barrel makes the most noise”. I suggest you take it to heart.
That aside - I fail to see your point. Don’t legal immigrants have precisely the same rights as natives? Isn’t that the case in the civilized world?
Yes, they’re allowed in to work and can at some point claim citizenship of the country they emigrated to. They don’t usually declare a new state in the country they now live in and ethnically cleanse the original inhabitants into ghettoes in their own land. As a general rule.
No, that’s not the context. The context is the fact that both Palestinian’s AND Jews were immigrating into that area…and why they were doing so. THAT is the context. The raw numbers don’t really tell the tail, and using them as you have is either clever (if you were trying to trick people) or silly (if you don’t understand the ‘why’ yourself).
What country are you referring too, DD? There WAS no country…just a territory being controlled and operated by the British. Before that, it was a minor principality controlled by the Ottoman Turks.
Context is everything, and it’s something that you seemingly have no grasp of on this subject. The Jews didn’t simply move in and declare their own country. The Palestinian’s didn’t HAVE a country of their own before this, and they COULD have…had they simply gone along with the original UN two state solution. They choose not too, and choose to attempt to establish their own country through force of arms. Israel went along with the original UN solution, but was forced to fight.
Anyway, it depends when and where. In some countries they’re citizens the moment they come off the boat; as soon as that happens, they have exactly the same right to the land as people whose ancestors have been there for centuries. They have the same right to declare a country as any indigenous people. If the Palestinians could declare independence, why couldn’t the Jews?
Uhuh, to be sure. Some of his contemporaries aren’t so sure, however, since the guy is essentially an Armenian Genocide denier. Why don’t you re-do the cite and give us the web page you got the table you are using from? That would put his own table into context, ehe?
From your own numbers we can see that as far back as 1600 to the late 19th century Jews were a tiny minority in Palestine. If you’re then going to look at the respective immigration levels of Jews and Arabs to Palestine, particularly from when the Arab:Jew ratio started to change substantially, I think any reasonable person would say that net Jewish immigration far exceeded net Arab immigration in the time period when, for the first time in centuries, the Arab:Jew changed significantly.
Well, the very nature of a war zone means “rights”, especially “future rights” are kinda up for grabs. That’s just reality though, don’t let it throw you.
So, can you say even one positive thing about Israel? It won’t mean anything, I’m just curious.
Yes, they did. Again, so what? Were they illegally immigrating? Answer: No. Were they illegally buying land? Answer: No.
So, what difference does it make that more Jews were (legally) immigrating and (legally) buying land in Palestine? Especially since the fact that they were buying and developing that land played a major part in making the land worth something. Which had a significant impact (along with the British post-1917) in why a significant Arab population was ALSO moving back into the area.
Last time I checked America was a sovereign state. During the period when Israel formed it’s own state it was NOT a sovereign state. Far from it…it was a British Protectorate and essentially a colonial possession of the crown. So, it’s an apples to oranges comparison…and one you seem reluctant to let go of, since you’ve used this before in the thread and were told the same thing.