No, it makes your strawman a strawman. You’re not addressing what I said, you’re ignoring a large segment of my OP and then addressing your argument to what I didn’t say. Practically the definition of a strawman.
So, to begin, may I assume that you have read every single post of mine when you state things like this, or are you just painting with a very wide brush?
Really, the message here is not that simple, it is not seemly to be celebrating in the way that the posts cited in the OP seem to be celebrating. That is all.
Now, I can honestly say that I have not seen anyone at least on these boards celebrating the death of innocents, but I will say that there has been what I interpret as some celebrating of the war itself. Do with that what you will
I believe London_Calling is referring to this thread, which was Slashdotted, and resulted in a significant influx of new users to the SDMB at the time. Many of them not exactly up to the standards of GD.
By the way, L_C, I think you may be right. I’ve noticed an awful lot of threads in GD lately that really shouldn’t be there in the first place. The “triumphal” thread was only one of them.
We have to remember that not only was Saddam removed from power but so were is successor sons, Odai and Qusai. Two guys that had years of hands-on experience using brutality. They might have even been considered “overqualified” when assuming dad’s duties. So, I’d suggest that THIS is what the celebrations are about. No one is celebrating anything else - whether it’s the war, the resulting deaths or the lost material.
You’re not listening, er, or reading correctly.
The OP is in reference to threads that are started everytime some report comes out talking about WMD, and poster says “I TOLD YOU STUPID PEACNIKS HE HAD THAT SHIT, BOOOOOOYAAAA IN YOUR FACE!”
The OP has nothing to do with people celebrating the end (hopefully) of their oppression. That’s entirely different.
You’re not listening, er, or reading correctly.
The OP is in reference to threads that are started everytime some report comes out talking about WMD, and poster says “I TOLD YOU STUPID PEACNIKS HE HAD THAT SHIT, BOOOOOOYAAAA IN YOUR FACE!”
The OP has nothing to do with people celebrating the end (hopefully) of their oppression. That’s entirely different.
I’d say the hard part of the war still lies ahead. The coalition overthrowing the Iraqi military is hardly a surprise, is it? We can debate over if they did it quicker than expected, or slower, but all that is trivial to the task that lies ahead. You’ve got a country of about 24 million people, of which an unknown portion might still vehemently support the dictator that you’ve just overthrown, if only for the fact that they see you as Western dogs.
Furthermore, Hussein has not been caught. Reports say he’s still alive.
Of course, the majority of the Iraqi population will back the coalition now that they’re free to do so. But that alone does not a modern democratic country make. There’s a long and dangerous road ahead, one that might cost far more lives on either side than have been spent already.
I’m glad the Saddam regime has been toppled. I still maintain that this war was fought by too narrow a coalition, at the wrong time, and definitely for the wrong reasons. The simple fact that Saddam is now most likely history doesn’t change that one bit. How many people have died and will die as a result of this war, only time will tell.
I’m positively delighted for the Iraqi people, who have found their freedom again. For that, we can only thank the coalition forces. That doesn’t mean that one has to subscribe to the underlying political decisions leading to their commands.
Let’s hope the road ahead is one of peace and democracy.
Thanks, Coldfire… that encapsulates my feelings on it completely. Actually, I agree with your entire post, but I hope that both anti-war and pro-war people can find enough compromise to share the view of your last two paragraphs… or at the very least, that last sentence.
I’m sorry you feel bad that your guy lost the war.
**
Now, now… do you really want them to throw another hissy fit? It will take alot more than a few cheering Iraqi’s to snap these assholes out of their defeatist fantasy.
We won. The good old United States of America is the most just and moral country in the world. We did damm good. We also took out a major terrorist funder and a terrorist camp with a mock up jet to train terrorists. We freed small children from torture camps. We let the other countries know if you will happen to you if you mess with good old USA. Gloat gloat gloat with smile ear to ear. It’s good to be an American. This is the best country on earth. Thank god for the USA.
Brought to you by citizens for the federal commission on gloating.
Unless this is just some humor thing that I am not getting, I’m going to have to say “Fuck You”, and then give you the finger
I would imagine that most of this pro-war bragging (which I’ve heard precious little of in the media) is the result of constant declarations that the war was becoming a quagmire and other such nonsense. IMO these people deserve to be mocked. From a military standpoint, this ranks amongst the most successful campaigns in history. Those who tried to make it seem otherwise have my contempt.
I would agree that pro-war bragging is a bad thing.
There is also a certain breed of anti, who’s stance seems to be founded on predicting failure and trouble in Iraq for the main purpose of being able to cast aspersions at the administrations.
Those that wished us ill in this for political purposes, who wanted us to fail, they can go fuck themselves.
Exactly my point. This isn’t a game, and it’s not over yet. Plus, it’s not celebrating that I see. It’s BRAGGING. There’s a difference.
Celebrating a victory is one thing. I have no problem with that. But going Neener Neener Neener! We’re right, you’re wrong, you suck! Blah blah blah-it’s immature and it’s just being an asshole.
And we wonder why everyone is so critical of America nowadays.
Jesus fucking christ! These kids have been fighting their asses off for what, 300 miles?
So what if they let off some steam. So fucking what if they brag a bit. They fucking deserve it!
And Guinastasia when is the last fucking time you have made a positive post on this board?
All you have done for weeks is pit newbies or people that piss you off (I’ll give you JC and JD) and fucking whine.
Damn, if you are that fucking pissed at the world, maybe you should back off a bit.
And to save you the trouble of raggin me, here is your response: “Fuck You Asshole!!”
You need to chill and get a fucking grip.
Oh, and BTW, we’re right and you are wrong…<googly eyed roll-eyes>
I guess the only thing worse would be people gloating about the war going badly.
Unless, of course, it was people hoping that the war would be worse.
Great links there Sam but of course now they will say we will fuck up the transition to a free government.
They may be right, but I am hearing a LOT of sour grapes amongst the libs now, it just bums some of them right the fuck out that they can’t gloat like they wanted.
You know, Sam and Scylla, I agree that hoping the war had gone badly is just as bad as bragging about it after the fact, but there seems to be far less of the former than of the latter, especially now. Even in the threads that Sam linked to (many of which I had already read), the discussion isn’t what I would call gloating, other than for a few select individuals.
I guess I wonder why you bring that up in this thread, since I haven’t participated in either behavior and I don’t think anyone else who has resposnded has done so either – with the exception of kanicbird and Azael, who really only prove the point of my OP. Scylla has already agreed that pro-war bragging is out-of-line right now. Would you agree with the same, Sam?
I do see the other side of the coin, and I agree that it’s no better. What I guess I’m hoping for is that both extremes can just shut up now. Now that the war seems to be winding down, perhaps the vultures on both sides of the war can go find some other carrion to feast on.
Avalonian Wrote: “This is the type of person who calls into radio talk shows to rant about the subject of their choice and play sycophant to the talk-show host, never grounded in reality or any sort of facts.”
Having lived in the United States for two years of grad school, I never understood the difference between talk radio and Hollywood star worship.
When somebody calls into Rush Limbaugh, the left perceives them as ignorant, uniformed, and a threat to democracy. When Susan Surandon, Martin Sheen, Sean Penn, Barbara Streisand, etc. make a statement, the right perceives them as ignorant, uninformed, and a threat to democracy. In each instance it is just the opinion of one person presented to countless others through the power of mass media.