Sorry if this has been pointed out as I have only read the first several replies.
Perhaps some time for some more translating:
YES we know that people are dying here. They are dying in the most horrible way - that is one reason we went to war. To stop the one doing most of the killing - Saddam.
One reason we went to war was to stop that killing or did you forget that it was Saddam that was doing most of the killing in the most horrible way
Here’s the deal slick; I get that the pro-war folks are using this as a reason, but for all of the many, many reasons that have been debated to death I pretty much utterly reject this as even a strong motive of the US administration.
This is not to say that the potential for a better life that the Iraqi people may now have is not a wonderful side effect, and it is also not to say that at any time I ever supported Saddam (really I fail to see how we anti-war folk could make this point any more clear to you folks, it is a pretty simple one and I suspect that it is either being ignored deliberately or that folks in the other camp are as a group lacking in the ability to engage in sophisticated thought).
Yes, I get that Saddam is a Very Bad Man™. But that changes nothing when it comes to my conviction that our leaders are lying to us. As far as I can tell, the folks in favor of this military action seem to be saying nothing more than the ends justify the means, and I will reject that logic utterly until the day I die.
You guys may be comfortable swallowing propaganda, but it really sticks in my craw. So, to summarize, your president pushed through your agenda without the mandate of the UN (possibly illegally, although I admit that the jury is still out on that one). For that matter a huge minority (or slim majority) of the population of the US did not want this man in office in the first place and disagree with the way that he is doing things.
Do with this what you will, but I will not shut up about it, I will not stop pointing out that a lot of you folks seem to be gloating and that as deeply divided as our country is at this point that is a crappy and stupid thing to do.
And you know what, on re reading this post it came of as a bit more ranty than I had intended. Specifically, I attributed a lot of motives to you based on the assumption that you were acting in ways that I have seen other folks in favor of this war to act. As I do not know you as a poster or a person, that is a big brush to wield. So, I am sorry for that. That said, setting aside that interpersonal stuff, my general points stand.
“your president” And you are from WA?!?!?!
Something had to be done and diplomacy was not working
Except that it makes no sense because the “killing” was much worse in the past and the USA did nothing at that time. In fact, the USA encouraged the shiite uprising in the south with the promise that it would help them and then let Saddam slaughter them and did not move a finger. For the USA to say now that it is about Saddam mistreating his people is hypocrisy of the highest order.
Yep he only fucked his own people - it is none of our business :rolleyes:
Do any of the anti’s believe that Saddam was not working to bring the hurt to the US?
Nope.
It was a different time and a different enemy - that crap only works if you only think about it for six seconds.
So, this post makes no sense. Washington went with Gore, and even if he did not the fact is that I voted against our current Frat Boy and Chief. In short, he ain’t my president. This is sort of lending credence to my theory that many folks on the other side of this debate are sort of stupid.
Also, for the record, I am a recent transplant from VT (who most certenly also did not vote for Bush). So basically, any way that you look at it, he ain’t my president.
And you know what, I would like for you to 100% clarify something for me. Is your position that our current administration really gave a shit about human rights and that this is the reason that we were in Iraq? In other words, do you believe what you are being told by the president at this point?
And you know what else? It kind of pisses me off that you are focusing in on the part of my earlier post that I had already admitted (almost immediately after) was painting with too wide a bush. You seem to not really be following the flow of this thread, my friend.
Ahem.
The rant was not about THEM. Hell, I’d have them putting the damn flag on whatever they want to stick it (as long as they don’t violate Flag Code, so no, they couldn’t put it on SH’s head)
It was about some folks sitting comfortably in their office chairs or their kitchen tables going “Bwaaa, haaa, haaa, suck me, you peacenik pussies!”
That’s about as bright as the main newspaper in this town, which had had a headline two wednesdays ago: “Another Vietnam Arises” jheeez…
Me, I just have the satisfaction that things went mostly better than I expected. No need to dance on anyone’s head to validate it.
Binarydrone:
Talk about following a thread!!! I said that I only read the first several posts.
So I guess I can take it that you do not consider yourself an American - Gore could not even win his own state - think about that!
I caught the part where you stated that you had only read the first couple of posts, I was glossing over that because when one posts without catching up on the full context of the tread, it is clear that they are simply interested in talking without hearing what others have to say. Looks like my attempt to save you a little face failed. Alas.
I also want to thank you for furthering the “You Aren’t a Real American” crap. Thank God that we have folks like you around that are willing to class all others that don’t agree with them in some huge “other” category. After all, that makes us all the more easy to ridicule and hate, does it not?
You sir, are an ass.
The first of my proper published articles against the war that’s on the internet is dated Jan 11th, well before the outbreak of the war. (there are others, but not all in my blog)
In it, I predicted “thousands” of Iraqis dead. We’ve done that, at least.
In it, I predicted that Iraq would, in the long term, turn out like Afghanistan - underfunded, split into factions, undersupported and forgotten by an Administration on a new set of Hijinx somewhere else in the world. This I have yet to see confirmed one way or the other, but it’s hardly at the stage where people can say “ha, told you so” yet.
The concluding paragraph of my article, posted, remember, on January 11th, went as follows.
So, if any fucking sanctimonious pro-war gloaters want to goad me about being wrong, I suggest you wait at least until the fucking war is over, and preferably until I have been proved wrong. Cheers.
Thanks, JRD… I’m glad that at least some people understand the distinction I was trying to make. Those comfortably-seated folks are exactly the ones I’m annoyed at.
And for what it’s worth, I’m also happy that things have gone better than I expected so far… however, the looting and vandalism in the freed cities tells me that it’s not over yet.
And Binarydrone (said to Blown & Injected):
I actually appreciate Blown & Injected popping up in here and proving the point of my thread. His brand of blind nastiness is exactly what I’m talking about.
That said, the last line of your post (quoted above) suddenly shoved the image into my head of Blown & Injected speaking his lines like Michael Keaton in Much Ado About Nothing. Next, he’ll come in and say, “And do not forget that I… am… an ass.” chortle Thanks for the image! 
I don’t think Blown & Injected was accusing him of being anti-American, just being pedantic about Binarydrone’s word usage.
sorry, I meant “not a real American”
And just what was I so nasty about???
I never said anything about “real” American.
The truth hurts
To answer your question… from your earlier post:
You know, the more I read from you, the more you remind me of Dogberry. Keep it up!