My family has owned a small restaurant in a small town for 20 years or so now and for a long time we were fortunate enough to not have any seriously big issues. But several years ago another business moved in next to us and decided to raise their parking area about a foot or two. This has become a problem for us because on our block, several of the business’ parking lots are connected, and they are all sloped in such a way to allow water from rain or anything else to move to the street/drains. By raising their parking area they have blocked the natural way the water would flow, and each time it rains our parking area/back area of the restaurant is flooded and we have to wade through ankle deep (I’d say about 6 inches) of water. This becomes a problem for unloading, working, and possibly for our health as well, though there hasn’t been serious “damages” to speak of as of yet. We have tried speaking to the neighbors and asked them to remove it, or at least make sure it doesn’t pool, but all they did was put in one pipe which does nothing to alleviate the problem. And because they put in that one pipe, they are now maintaining that they have tried their best and the pooling is not their fault nor their responsibility, and that we must have had this problem from before (which as you might have guessed, is simply not true, we never had any problem like this before, even during El Nino).
We went to the city to try and get their help, but apparently our area is not considered the same as other commercial areas in this city so they are saying that the neighbor has broken no codes or regulations and it is also private property so they have no say in the matter. We have also gone to several lawyers but, perhaps because there are no damages monetarywise, they are all unwilling to help also. We have also tried getting a mediator, but the neighbors didn’t even deign to respond.
I understand that because each city is different that the thing about the codes might be true and such, but each time we’ve gone their answer has been different and I can’t believe they can’t do anything to help us. It just seems like we’ve been lied to and kind of tossed aside when we’ve been working there all these years and it is absurd how these neighbors can just come in and claim no responsiblity. I also understand that I shouldn’t be taking this personally, but it has been a very frustrating couple of years with my family and I trying to get help/a solution from someplace, anyplace, with nothing to show for it except growing anger on our parts.
Please, is there anybody that can offer me advice or an answer on this situation?
Ask the DNR who has responsibility over flood control for your area. That’s all I’ve got that you haven’t said you’ve tried, other than raise your own parking lot level.
If someone has an accident in your parking lot that is directly due to the flooding who do you think they are going to go after?
Have you looked at why your parking lot doesn’t drain well? Is there just too much water or are your drains perhaps clogged? If you can’t make the situation go away by clearing your drains you have to somehow make this his problem and nor yours. How about asking your customers to complain to the city on your behalf? If enough people complain loud enough the city will be forced to find a solution.
An easier but more exensive way to deal with this might be through binding arbritration and let some impartial person decide who is at fault and who is responsible for fixing the problem. Of course your neighbor would have to agree to the arbritration, which may not be easy…
Hmmm. We have a similar problem where I work, whereby we’re below a developed lot and their storm drains aren’t sufficient to eliminate heavy rainwater so it overtops the curb up there and flows down our hill, overtopping our retaining wall.
Our county official told us it’s the property owner of the developed lot up above’s responsibility to ensure that their storm drains were efficient enough to handle “their” rainwater.
When I began reading your OP, my first thought was “oh, he ought to be able to get his local officials to be on his side in this issue”.
That sucks. Especially since the neighbor is a johnny-come-lately and you’re an established business in the community.
I think you should just suck it up and install a drain directly into the stormwater system yourself. Faster and probably cheaper that going the litigation route.
If the change is causing water to drain from their lot to yours then you should be able to force a change. But it sounds like the change is keeping the water from draing from your lot to theirs to the street.
Contact the other business owners to see if they will help. If not you may have to block their lots from draining to yours, and either install a drain or add a sump and a sump pump.
Who exactly did you talk to at the city? The person you probably want to speak directly to is the building inspector. If you haven’t heard directly from him/her yet (even if you had messages relayed from him/her) I would get him on the phone or meet him face to face. Doesn’t have to be anything confrontaional or argumentative, but maybe a simple “So here’s the problem, here’s what caused it (it was fine for the last 20 years), what can we do about it” type of thing. Has the building inspector been out to look at it in person?
Thanks to all those who responded. I would like to address some of the questions and suggestions and also add in some more information as well as ask a couple more questions of my own.
I believe the reason they raised the parking lot is to make loading and unloading easier. Previously they had a ramp but now they can just take things straight in. They also put into that parking area large oil drum type things? Possibly to put there used oils and stuff? I am not sure though.
We actually did go talk to the building inspector too, face to face. He said that he would go check it out and call us back, which we never did so we kept calling back. We kept getting told that he would either get back to us or that he was on vacation. And then the last time we went we were told that he retired. I have not been able to contact the new inspector as of yet. We hired a civil engineer to measure out the layout of the area and it is his professional opinion also that it is this neighbor’s fault that there are these issues.
We considered raising our own parking lot too, but that would just cause the same flooding issue to the neighbor that’s on the other side of our parking lot (the one who caused this problem is on the south side of us, so basically if we built it up the same problem would occur to the one north of us).
The DNR thing may be a possibility, but I seem to be having a slight problem finding a number to call for them for California at the moment. Odd, I find them for every other state…
If you are in a smallish city, I would try and talk to the mayor, otherwise see if you can get ahold of his supervisor and explain the situation just like this.
I would contact the new inspector as soon as possible. Make sure that you document each attempt to contact him/her. If you get the same run-around this time, contact the city councilman/alderman for your ward/district. If no response, bump it on up to the mayor. Keep fussing about it - keep it low key but be persistent. Take plenty of photos & video and send them to the councilman and mayor.
Did the engineer mention to you that (in most states) one property owner doesn’t have the right to impede water flow across their property? In other words, they are prohibited from blocking, diverting, or increasing the natural flow of waters to/from adjoining properties. You’ll need to find out if that’s true in CA. If it is, ask the engineer to write a letter report to you, detailing all of the problems and predicting future consequences. That could include future damage to your building’s foundation, because of inadequate drainage. Then send a copy of the letter to your neighbor.
Alternatively, did the engineer make any suggestions to you such as putting in your own drain?
You’re right, don’t do this.
Perhaps you want the California EPA? http://www.calepa.ca.gov/ They may not have jurisdiction over this.
I call bullshit. They have changed/blocked the flow of waters across their property. The onus is on them to prove that their drainage system is adequate to handle the problem. Your engineer should speak to that in the letter. Perhaps you have some ‘before’ photographs of the area?
If you are in Calif and they are storing used oils in the parking lot they are in trouble.
Are the drums double contained?
Violation of EPA. and Cal EPA
Violation of of fire code.
They are also going to need to have on file a haz-mat plan.
they are a danger to you. If the drums leak they can contaminate their and yours parking lot. Depending on the oils possably closing your lot until a haz-mat clean up is completed.
Another thing to do (just for fun) would be to go to the city hall and make sure they pulled all the proper permits for the work they did (if they needed any).
