Problems arising from indoor living (this means you).

Great Debates
1

This weighty post intimately applies to EVERYONE IN THE UNIVERSE. Let me proceed…

Up until now, human civilization has never made it a point to live in caves (yes, houses), mostly tents, huts, ect. naturally ventilated structures…

Up until recently, human civilization has not spent very much time inside their abodes, they were too busy living their lives. Meaning, they used their abodes for its purpose, shelter, and nothing more.

Up until recently, I confidently speculate that human civilization has never had as many asthma and allergy problems.

… thus the need for billions of dollars shovelled into Healthcare instead of productivity.

I speculate there is nothing biologically wrong with us; there is something wrong with our decisions.

Two questions:

  1. How does the flora and air quality inside a reasonably clean, air conditioned house significantly differ from outdoors? (Another supplemental question to this: What constitutes “clean” in relation to the modern man’s immune system?)
  2. Theoretically speaking (because God knows there are no studies on this) What health problems can arise from:
    a. Being weened and raised in this indoor flora
    b. Living the vast majority of your life in this indoor environment?

I suspect this audaciously unnatural habit we have of sheltering ourselves from our own environment is causing many health problems, is this true and how is it true specifically?

Do I need to remind you that asthma and allergies cause poor sleep, which contributes to a host of health and mind problems? Beginning to see the relveance of this topic?

Wow, I’ve never been to medical school (paramedic school maybe), yet I have just uncovered the exact pathology of hundreds of millions of people’s health problems and now all they have to do is open a window, so to speak.

My questions are infintely complex, please treat them as such. Thanks fellows.

2

Actually, it’s been suggested for several years that an excessively sterile environment may be what’s causing the apparent uprise in asthma numbers. We have all of these immune responses and nothing to use them on anymore, so they “get bored” and start fighting our own bodies.

3

Up till now, humans didn’t live long enough to warrant the question.

4

Was this an answer to one of my questions?

Quantity over quality is a preference, not a universal.

Preference has no value in General Questions.

Personally, I would rather die at 33 of botulism or Tuberculosis in my prime than slowly die of CHF at 78, but again, this preference has no value here in General questions, so why am I posting it???

5

Are you under the impression that tuberculosis is a swift, merciful death?

6

I know it ain’t as bad as living decade after decade in subtly deteriorating health, as I see my elders doing, again IMO (why are we talking about this and not the General Question?).

I want to know the implications of living like we do so that I can better help my friends and family with their health issues in life. Quit bothering me and my thread with unrelated material while I am trying to do research.

For instance, my friend is unable to do his job to his fullest ability because he is always sneezing and sniffling and such. That ain’t no way to live…

7

I have a theory, completely unsupported by data, that SAD, or seasonally affected disorder, is caused by staying awake when our bodies natural rhythms would have us sleep. For almost all of our history during the winter short days and long nights encouraged, even forced us to sleep more.

Now, with longer working days, electric lights, TV, internet, and other distractions, we stay awake longer, especially in the winter, and a new syndrome is formed. The trouble is that when someone tries to return to a more normal sleep pattern by sleeping 12 hours straight it is diagnosed as depression. Our ancestors slept dark to daylight, why shouldn’t we?

8

Fuel,

Well I have lived in heated and air conditioned splendor, availiang myself of heated and air conditioned transportation modes, and generally avoided being out of doors for most of my recreations. While I do spend some time out of doors, I certainly am several standard deviation more sheltered than my caveman ancestors.

I have no asthma. I seldom get sick. I seldom go to doctors. I am pushing sixty years of age. I had allergies as a kid. I got over it.

And by the way, dying of Tuberculosis takes decades, and involves lots and lots of suffering. Just so you know.

Tris

9

If this is true, my speculative answer is that they worked hard enough to need that sleep, unlike us with our flat butts and our food served to us… how much sleep do you think someone needs if all they do is sit almost all day long at home at work and in the car???

I could talk about natural living until the cows come home. Truth is, we all live very odd lives that lend itself to a host of health problems but nobody knows what to do about it on a personal or mass scale. Its all a big joke. I am addressing only one issue in this thread, sleep is another.

My favorite analogy goes like this: Just like domestic dogs have internally originating problems (thyroid, heart disease, rotten teeth), we domestic modern men have our internally originating problems. (Yes, some breeds of dog are very unnatural and weak, which contributes to internal pathologies, but the analogy still works.)

10

Disclaimer: I am not a doctor/pathologist/epidemiologist or any such specialist along those lines.

If God knows that there are no studies available, then He’s slipping up. Just for the heck of it, I did a search for the words “indoor living” through PubMed, a free online reference database sponsored by the National Institutes for Health and the National Library of Medicine. Since I wasn’t terribly specific with my search terms, I’m sure that some portion of the 785 references returned are not directly relevant to your questions, but out of the first 20 listed there are probably nine that fit:

I’m sure there a bunch more, I just don’t have time to look at the moment. Some of those papers will even be available to you to read for free. Good luck with your research.

Oh, and by the way, when a physician who could actually be in a position to respond to you more directly makes a comment related to something you’ve said, this kind of response:

is not likely to make them want to assist you further. Just saying.

11

Ok, You were an indoors creature. You had allergies as a kid when there was nothing wrong with you but your environment. You got over it cause you were lucky and now you “seldomly” go to the doctor.

Nice story about one measly person in General Questions.

12

Sunfish: If there are all these types of studies done, then why don’t I see evidence of them at the end stage of the Healthcare system, the family doctor?

Then why isn’t my mom’s doctor telling her to clean her house before he recommends a slew of allergy shots?

Does everyone see the joke that is currently going on, in the United States at least? You can’t run to the government to help you with your health, you have to try help yourself first. For allergy patients, It starts by blowing the DUST off your window locks and using them!

It starts by looking in your HVAC ducts and seeing the microbiology project lurking inside, not with a bunch of shots invented by a billion dollar biotech company.

13

<mod>

Fuel, your attitude in this thread is not in keeping with the spirit of the SDMB.

If you truly feel that we’re bothering you, please do your “research” elsewhere. We are not a “scientific research and peer review” message board.

And here someone tries to help with personal experience and you dismiss it with a personal insult to the poster who was trying to help.

You have violated the basic rule of the SDMB, namely Don’t Be A Jerk. This is your one and only official warning to lighten up. Your attitude is not appreciated.

</mod>

14

By the way, I can afford to leave the courtesy out of my posts if I am right.

I don’t need the help of a SD doctor if all he or she wants to do is point out one misunderstanding I have about an unrelated topic. He or she obviously does not have the attitude necessary to help me.

Let’s see what the Straight Dope knows about one issue that is relevant to every member, and one issue the world is ignorant about.

15

How do you define “up until recently”?

Are you comparing living today compared to 30 years ago? 100 years ago? 500 years ago?

If you’re saying there are more diagnosed cases of asthma now than there were 30 years ago your probably right. But no one was living outside 30 years ago. We were all pretty much living in enclosed heated/ac’d homes like we are today. So no real change in living there.

If you’re saying there are more diagnosed case of asthma now than there were hundreds of years ago when people lived and spent their lives outside then I’d have to see evidence that they even knew how to diagnose asthma back then.

I’d be more interested in seeing asthma related cases and how they relate to different “current” living styles. Comparing say the urban office worker who lives in a high rise vs. the midwest farmer who works outdoors all day. Or American suburban kids vs. kids in countries where they live in open air huts. And what asthma rates they have in 2006.

16

Untrue.

17

The SD are not bothering me, one member was.

It should be obvious, personal experience is not relevant here… also, that person was not trying to help.

GQ is where the big dogs come to get serious business done. Whoever wants to get in the way of this business with irrelevant materials should accept posts without courtesy. This is the way I see it, maybe I am off on this.

18

<mod>

You’re off on this. Final warning. Don’t let it happen again.

</mod>

19

I didn’t necessarily mean for “asthma and allergies” to be split into seperate deals here. Allergies are a ridiculous problem in our society, and I am wondering if it has a ridiculous solution; allergies are my main focus.

I said “recently” because I don’t care to be exact on dates, I don’t need to for these purposes.

20

Perhaps because her doctor assumed that, like many other people suffering from allergies, she has already done everything that she could be way of pursuing home remedies before seeking medical advice? A mistake on his part, maybe… but if she’s truly unhappy with his treatment approach, she should find another doctor.

No one is required to accept posts in GQ without courtesy. In fact, no one is required to do anything for you here.

That’s it for me in this thread.