The problem is is that there is an assumption that others are as informed about the positions of these politicians, and the direction that they are taking us as we are, and that they are choosing to continue to support them in spite of or because of that.
However, most people are low information voters. They may see a few minutes a day of news headlines, hear some gossip from acquaintances, and vote the way that they have voted their whole lives without really thinking about it.
Efforts from Democrats, not matter how nice of how nasty they are, won’t move these voters a smidge. Efforts from prominent conservatives, OTOH, at least have a chance.
And same goes the other direction. If a Republican feels personally attacked for being complicit, even in their ignorance, about what is happening to our country, then sorry not sorry.
Once again, goes both ways. The difference is that this is a messageboard with people venting their frustrations, and if a Republican takes what happens here as a reason to continue to support the efforts of the far right that has taken over the Republican party, then they weren’t persuaded by what was said here, they were looking for an excuse.
And “when they go low, we go high” has been a strategy that has been demonstrably a failure. There is no compassion or tolerance, and nothing but pure judgmentalism coming from the right. How long do we have to take the low blows and continue to be the better person, when that certainly does not get any respect from them?
About half of my wifes side of the family is like. Voting for anything other that an R would be like trying to breath under water. They simply can’t Imagine not voting for whatever republican candidate there is.
I don’t see them that often, but a few times they have sort of fluctuated that maybe, MAYBE Trump was a bad choice. “But what else could we do?”
Are we related? I grew up in an extremely toxic Republican household, where my father would literally boo when anyone with a D next to their name came on the TV.
Being kicked out of that household was probably the best thing that ever happened to me. I started out reflexively Republican, as I was raised to believe that the Democrats were evil sub-humans who wanted to destroy our country and our way of life. It really didn’t take me very long living on my own and working minimum wage jobs to realize just how ignorant I was, and how biased my thinking was.
My father won’t vote Republican anymore as he has passed away, but so long as my mother lives, she’s a sure Republican voter, no matter how many puppies they kick on live TV, she will rationalize that the Democrats are worse.
That great mass in the middle might have their reasons for voting R but they don’t think that the election was stolen. This won’t change a single mind of the people who do think the election was stolen. Whether or not the election was stolen doesn’t matter to the people on the fence.
I live and work in deep red territory. The great mass in the middle hear some people say that it was stolen, other people say that it wasn’t, and don’t have time or care enough to look into themselves and make a determination. If Republicans say it was stolen, and Democrats say it wasn’t, they are going to believe the Republicans. If some Republicans say it was stolen, and some other Republicans say it wasn’t, at least that has a chance of making it through their filters.
No one said it would, nor did anyone say it was meant to.
I think it matters a great deal. They are still going to vote R, but they are going to be choosing which R’s to vote for based on their beliefs as to which R’s are telling the truth here. They may even sit out or vote third party to avoid voting for a Trump follower.
These are people I talk to every day. And sure, some of them will never change, and will rant and rave about the stolen election until their last breath. But that’s not really most of them, it’s just the most vocal of them. Tepid Trump supporters, who only voted for him because he was the nominee and President, are starting to come around, and while they don’t reject the party, they are starting to reject Trump and his followers.
But for people like that, the people that signed this report aren’t “prominent”. Prominent needs to be like, 10 Rebublican senators and 30 Republican house members. Major media personalities. What do they care what ex-federal judges say?
Lots of current judges, including Trump appointees said overwhelmingly that the baseless fraud claims were bullshit. Republicans were unswayed. Fuck 'em.
To be fair, my loathing of Trump didn’t reach 2017, after he took office. Immediately after the election I thought, “Well, he doesn’t know much about being President but then, who does, really? He’ll surround himself with smart people who’ll come up with policies I’ll hate but they’ll keep the wheels of government turning.”
Then my doubts started when I read an article about how the State Department people, as usual, created pass-down documentation for the incoming administration, and no one showed up to read it. After that came the stories about how his was the biggest inauguration evah! and it began to sink in what an egotistical poltroon he really was, and by the end of that week, I’d created the T**** countdown clock I posted from time to time.
So, I’ll give people a pass for voting for him in 2016 – he’s the consummate conman – but not in 2020, and anyone who didn’t immediately condemn him after J6 is a traitorous asshole who has no clue about what this country’s ideals are.
Other than engaging them, what other options are available? Although Trump lost the election, a mind blowing 74,000,000 Americans voted for him. I don’t know how many of those actually believe the stop the steal nonsense, but I suspect it’s millions. We’re not talking about a fringe group of loonies, we’re talking about a mainstream belief representing an existential threat to the country. We can’t really afford to ignore them, and if we’re not willing to talk to them then what next?
A lot of them are. I’ve certainly faced some serious hostility from Republicans when I voice my dissatisfaction with Trump. They’re typically not interested in anything I have to say and have made it clear that they’re happy RINOs like me left the party. Truthfully, I only know one Trump supporter who had a change of heart about him and it wasn’t because of anything he heard me say.
Most of them couldn’t name more than 5 prominent members of their party. They couldn’t tell you who their senators are, who their reps are, nor who their state level office holders are. They can probably name the president and vice, maybe the governor of their state, and maybe congressional leaders.
How well known these people are to a potential voter doesn’t matter nearly as much as the R next to their name. That’s all they ever need to know 90% of the time.
Anyone who is going to vote for Republicans no matter what has - and is - a serious problem.
Look at Joe Biden. How is he threatening? If somebody thinks voting for a Democrat is unthinkable, they are delusional. And I mean that literally. It’s the equivalent of believing the earth is flat.
I realize the reason people believe things like this is because they live inside a bubble. They get their information from sources like Fox News and Newsmax and Rush Limbaugh and places that are even worse. But they’re choosing to do that. This isn’t Russia or China where the government controls the media. There are plenty of media that are reporting the truth; if people are only hearing lies, it’s because they made a choice to do so. They are self-lobotomizing.
Because he is a senile puppet that is being used to further the marxist agenda that will intentionally raise gas prices to $50 a gallon, eliminate private business, and arrest anyone who dares speak out against him.
Or so I hear from the Republicans in my area.
I don’t disagree, but the whole point of this is that it originates within that bubble, giving a chance that it is actually heard by those who have cut themselves off from reality.
There are some things, like the fight against this lie, that are final. Ever miss a train? Too late for that, and it’s gone. There will be another train, but the one that got away is gone for good.
What I dislike about their writing, at least in the executive summary is the gently-gently mealy-mouthed way it is said.
It’s not that I think shouting & hitting people over the head with the truth is persuasive; it’s not. Especially when the folks you’re trying to persuade have Fox playing in the background while they’re reading your report.
But by choosing the extra soft voice, they essentially dull their message down to “It’s the usual Establishment lying by mumbling focus-tested platitudes. It has little truth value and zero persuasive value.”
It almost looks like it’s intended to decoy the Left into thinking there’s some there there, while the folks on the Right see right through the ruse.
Then why are 65% of Republicans sucking up to him? Yeah, tool, like Frankenstein and his creation Adam. They created a monster and have lost control of it.
65% of polled Republicans think the election was stolen. That leaves 35% who are kinda sane- that isn’t such a “great mass.”
If it was going to ever be effective, we’d already be seeing a growing groundswell of forehead slapping and “I wuz blind; now the scales have fallen from my eyes!” from “reasonable” Republicans throughout the land.
Do we see such? Not that I have seen or read even the slightest evidence of.
Media splashes of whatever nature sink quickly. This has 48 to 72 hours to move the needle or it’s gone, gone, gone, replaced by whatever is next. The braying horde of news consumers demands no less and the attention arbiters for the masses aim to deliver what they’re called to deliver: more fresh commentary, controversy, and polemic.