This is immediately prompted by a play in the Cubs-Mets game where Pete Crow-Armstrong was caught stealing on a walk, but it applies to all stolen bases in the era of replay review.
I’m taken as a given the following (but we can debate them if you would like): stolen bases are good for the game, teams are very precise about the cost-benefit analysis around stolen base attempts, and therefore anything that reduces SB success rate (without some offsetting benefit) is bad for the game. And finally, the spirit of rules surrounding stolen bases is that if the runner touches the next base before they are tagged by the ball, they have stolen the base.
Corollary: Replay review are boring and should be minimized where possible. Replay reviews that are against the spirit of the rules are the worst.
Instant replay has caused many extra outs due to runners slightly coming up off the bag while sliding on a stolen base. If the defender holds the tag on the runner, replay review might find a single frame where the runner isn’t fully in contact with the bag. I can find clips if you like, but anybody that has watched baseball in the last decade has seen this happen.
My proposed change: A runner safely reaching the next base without being tagged is not liable to be put out unless all of their body extends beyond the far edges of the base. For second base that would be the region towards third and left-center field. For third it would be the region towards home and the third-base foul territory.
And it still punishes players that completely over-slide the base - they would still be at risk of being put out.
So let me have it - what am I missing that makes this a bad idea?
I pretty much stopped watching baseball because of their monkeying around with the rules. Of course, I realize it’s nothing entirely new. And I also realize there are some valid reasons even if I ultimately disagree with the change. For example, I certainly understand the pitchers not wanting to hit (both for safety and because they often look like a dufus), but it changed the game in ways I consider undesirable. Hell, I was opposed to the DH back in the 70s.
No real opinion on the OP’s proposal. But in general, I wish we would play baseball more traditionally. I’d have to research it to be more specific, but I’d suggest freezing the rules in the 1960s, about when they last changed the pitcher’s mound height.
For comparison, how do the rules work for non-steal runners advancing? If I’m on first and the batter hits and I start running for second, and touch base before the fielder gets the ball, but then I break contact with the base for a moment while the fielder is tagging me, am I out?
Whatever the rule is for normal advancement, it should be the same for stolen bases.
Perhaps “if any part of their body remains immediately above the base” excepting if the limb touching the base is deliberately removed from the base.
I’m with you on this. Film and slow motion have changed what would normally be traditional calls. Your hand or foot touched second before you got tagged, you were safe. That fraction of a second between when your heel left the bag and your butt touched it again didn’t matter. It still shouldn’t matter.
If you’re off the base and the ball is live, you can be tagged out. The only exception I can think of is when the batter-runner overruns first base but doesn’t turn towards second they can’t be tagged out. I don’t think the game needs more exceptions - it’s a pretty simple rule.
I agree, and I propose changing it for both. Under current rules whenever you are off the base you are liable to be put out, even if it’s for a microsecond as the result of a slide.
Right. This is just reverting to how the game has always been played. It’s entirely a problem caused to instant replay.
I’d also be happy making safe/out tag calls non-reviewable, but as with anything replay-related we are never going back.
Umps can still call out if they see you leave the bag while being tagged. But replay can only be used to see if the runner made it to the bag before being tagged.
This example would also no longer be an out under my proposed rule (although not the modification proposed by @Cheesesteak, under which the jump would be considered “deliberate”).
One ulterior motivation I have is that I coach a recreational little league team and the more “baseball aware” teams we play know to hold the tag on the runner for a long time after a slide because there is a decent chance that the runner will forget to call time and accidentally disengage trying to stand up. It’s bush league and ends up with a small kid in tears. And with the runners that know better it just wastes time.
I like it, but I think it falls into the overall “replay trap”, which is that “replay is the truth, and the #1 priority is that the call must match the truth”. Trying to say “yeah, we know he was technically out according to the rules but we aren’t allowed to change the call” is never a winning argument.
Better to make the rule match what you want “the truth” to be. And I think @Cheesesteak has it nailed - we want the truth to be “you are safe when advancing to the next base as long as you reach the base before the tag and don’t voluntarily leave it”.
Honestly you could merge the two by making the “voluntarily disengage” part a judgement call and non-reviewable. Now the ump can just say “I have the runner reaching the base before the tag and not voluntarily disengaged” - the defense can challenge the safe part but not the disengage part. So teams won’t be throwing out all these challenges hoping to catch a ticky-tack out.
I think I’ve seen that before when the fielder screws up the throw in. Like, guy on 3rd easily tags up and gets home, they throw to keep the guy on 2nd from advancing but that is badly overthrown and in the scramble to get the ball he manages to get home. But you’re right that it doesn’t happen often.
If you want the game to be played more “traditionally” you want more rule changes not less. The game has changed because players have gotten bigger, stronger, smarter. The rules encouraging steals are a good example of rules designed to move baseball more like it has been in the past.
Anyway I don’t think a particularly big problem, but I would support a rule that once you touch a base the area above the base is still considered part of the base and you are safe even if not directly touching.
I think I understand that you are talking about something else entirely, but just in case, the rule change I brought up here isn’t to address a batter reaching second on a walk. The play in question was a baserunner at first that was put out at second after the batter walked, due to slightly coming off the base after a slide.
This proposed change sounds like a solution in search of a problem. If you get tagged off the bag, you’re out. That’s a simple rule. Why make it more complicated by saying you’re only out if you’re off the bag in certain ways?
As it stands, the runner has to stay in control of their body throughout the slide. I like that the current rule rewards that skill.
I agree. As soon as it’s ball four, the catcher can (but probably should not) put the ball in his pocket. A steal from 2nd to 3rd (or home!) is fair game. I’ve seen good stealers cause balks, of course, and sometimes the pitcher can be distracted.
I guess this means a pitcher can throw a pitch out for ball four? I do not agree.
I agree. A baserunner that knows they can overrun the base will just sprint and crash - no need to control his body. Maintaining contact with the base is part of stealing.
I think that is certainly the strongest argument against this proposal. My only counter-argument is that while pre-replay there have certainly been runners called out for sliding over/past the bag, it had to be pretty damn obvious for it to be called.
The problem, such as it is, is the super-slo-mo replays that leads to out calls for millimeter/microsecond disengagements. I feel like that is against the spirit of the rules. I’ll see if I can find some rough numbers on how many extra outs we are talking about in a season - maybe it’s a meaningless amount. But if it’s at all significant I’d take anything to get a bit more offense (especially non-HR offense) back into MLB.
