Pros vs cons - strenuous exercise for older (40-ish) guy

Factual Questions
1

Yesterday had a - ahem - discussion with my wife concerning my running. I run 4 to 6 miles 3 to 4 times a week, at a pace around 8 min per mile. I usually run around lunchtime, on asphalt and concrete. That is when and where it fits in. My goal is to run in the Chicago marathon in October 2004.

My wife thinks I am stupid for wanting to run a marathon, as I risk exacerbating my existing arthritis, or developing new chronic/permanent impairments. She also thinks I am courting a heart attack or stroke by running in the summer heat.

History and stats: I will be 43 in November. I am 6’3" and just under 200#.
Ran track in HS, played a lot of basketball in college and grad school.
Have worked out in health clubs the past 15+ years, aerobic and weights. Consistently weighed approx 185#, body fat around 10%.
Historically very low pulse and rock solid blood pressure.
Parents both had HBP.
From age 28-41, I did a lot of martial arts. Boxing, kickboxing, weapons, grappling. In the process I broke my left ankle, my left wrist, and (repeatedly) my right big toe. The last couple of years I intentionally increased my muscle mass through aggressive lifting and diet - increased to 215#. At age 40 I was competing in NHB-type competitions with much younger guys - in the best shape of my life.
I stopped fighting due to my left wrist. I had broken it, but did not treat it and continued fighting. I currently have bone chips which should eventually be removed. Also, my right big toe developed considerable arthritis after being repeatedly broken and consistently hyperextended during grappling. Basically, my toe hurts every time I take a step - but it doesn’t hurt while running. Moreover, the orthopedist who interpreted the x-rays said I could do as much with it as possible - it wouldn’t get worse, it would just hurt. Prescribed pain reliever which I do not take. Got the same info from a physical therapist. Granted, I did not ask the ortho about training for a marathon.

After running somewhat sporadically for a year, I ran far more consistently over the past year. I am feeling stronger, and my times are going down. I run with a couple of guys my age, who are far more accomplished runners and repeat marathoners. My knees and my left ankle ache sometimes, but nothing too bad. I’ll never be as good a runner as I was a fighter, but it keeps me in shape, and I’ll be able to be decent for an old fart. Like I said, my toe hurts all the time, whether I’m running or not.

I really love working out in the heat - when the sweat just streams off you. I also like the feeling of being in shape. I like being able toi physically do just about anything, from working around the house, to sports and rough-housing with the teenage kids. I’m not at all a hard body, but I like the self-image that I can push my body to do almost whatever I tell myself to do. In martial arts, you learn that when your mind starts saying your body wants to quit, if you just ignore that thought, you can continue far further than you would have expected. Also, for good or bad, martial arts gives you a pretty high pain threshold. Heck, I fought for a year with a shattered wrist, so I have proven myself stupid enough to ignore significant injuries.

Well, this is too long already. What do you think? I plan on going to the doctor and telling him my history and plans, and getting a work-up. Just wondering if any of you could share your experiences and expertise, or direct me to any resources. I’d really like to continue competing at a decent athletic level. But I’d just as soon not keel over from a heart attack, or need a hip replacement in the next few years.

2

Forget the running and take up walking, one foot on the ground at all times. Fast walking will give you all the benefits of exercise (running) and few if an of the disadvantages. Running and jogging agravates arthritis, joint problems and stresses internal organs.

The teen agers need more than rough-housing. They need serious mentoring to prepare them for adulthood.

If you need an ego kick take up mentoring to disadvantaged children. Teach/coach adults in a reading program, work with the Boy Scouts, Boys & Girls Clubs, etc.

The more you GIVE the more you Get in return in satisfaction.

3

70 year olds have run marathons before. I’d suggest Getting yourself on a training program for it. Just do a google search for “running a marathon over 40 years old” and you should find several programs. Or there are running clubs that group train for marathons. A marathon is roughly 24 miles which you are doing as a weekly total right now so you are already at a base level to jump into marathon training.

yeah, the heat and humidity will make it tougher…just keep yourself hydrated and as cool as possible…maybe run in the morning or after the sun goes down…and get yourself a good pair of running shoes designed for the heavier runner that is running on asphalt.

As far as making arthritis worse…if you keep it to one marathon per year it will minimize the arthritis…take anti-inflamatories and run on softer surfaces from time to time.

4

The first guy to ever run a marathon (OK, to Marathon) died at the finish line.

Get a rowing machine. Great workout, zero impact.

5

www.coolrunning.com

They have a great message board too where people won’t try to compare running a marathon to using a rowing machine.

The best thing to do about your wife is bring her with you when you see the doctor.

6

I do not see a reason you should stop your running. However, when you do you will need to replace it immediatley with another exercise. My father is 66 and looks and feels like he’s 40. He is very much like you are Dinsdale active runner, exercise etc…etc… He is in the gym everyday and it shows. He eats well and get’s regular check ups. I have no doubt he’ll be a centurion.

The arthritis is a problem though. I would get it taken care of surgically if you have the means. Because stressing currently arthritic joints et al, could be damaging in the future and totally prevent you from doing the things you like…So thinking ahead and being smart now will be highly beneficial. However, judging by your posts and your OP, you are an intelligent man who I am sure will make the right decision. And your lifestyle now is very healthy so thinking ahead is the only way to go.

7

There’s something to be said for looking into the various joint protection supplements (check here). But as others have said, there’s no reason you can’t run a marathon as long as you build up to it gradually.

8

I don’t think it’s ever a good idea to exercise too strenuously when it’s extremely hot out. You’re just asking for it no matter how in shape you are, IMO.

Your martial arts mind over body attitude is worthy in a fight or survival situation, but consistently not listening to your body (i.e. running in extreme heat for the fun of it, continuing to fight or exercise with broken bones) is just, and I’m being polite here, rather pointless. I’m sure your wife has been less polite and I would imagine that’s because she wants you here on this earth as long as possible.

That being said, kudos to you or anybody for that matter for running a marathon. You seem to be more than able to do it. I’m sure your doctor will tell you you’d be better off walking or cycling (my personal choice). Maybe do a half marathon in the fall and see how that goes.

Also, concrete has to be the worst surface to run on with asphalt a close second. Do you have any other options?

9

Damn, if that had been written by someone other than a complete goofball, I might have acquired a new sig! :wink:

I told my wife she should come to the doc with me. Her response was “I don’t need to go to the doc to hear what I already know!” :rolleyes:

spingears - it is kinda presumptuous for you to hop in here and out of ignorance suggest that all I do with my kids is rough-house.

Tho your tone concerning my apparent need for an ego boost is also phrased kinda jerk-ily IMO - it does raise a possibly relevant issue. Wanting to run a marathon does have the element of accomplishing something really difficult that not too many people do. I don’t know if it is mid-life crisis or anything, but I just don’t have that many memorable discrete accomplishments. Sure, I make good money, have a pretty successful marriage, 3 great kids, etc. But I’ll never be the head of my office, I was never a sports champion in anything, never wrote a significant published article, etc.

It’s not as tho my running a marathon will make me anything special. But it will signify that at in my 40s I set a high goal and accomplished it. And I’ll have that in my credit column as long as I live. And IMO it will send a worthwhile message about goalsetting, committment, etc. to my kids.

Tho I generally don’t think of myself as overly competitive - believe me, I am far too lazy to be considered Type-A - I freely admit that I got a real kick out of being able to fight on an equal level with guys 1/2 my age. And I know I’m no adonis, but I am aware that there are pretty few guys my age who are in much better shape than me. Is such vanity bad?

Viewed one way, such thoughts could seem shallow. But I don’t think it is an entirely horrible thing to set challenging goals for one’s self.

I said to my wife, “What if I decided to climb Mt Everest or go skydiving.” She said “No problem!” She’d simply filefor divorce immediately. So at least she has an open mind concerning such things …

10

I don’t see any problem with running a marathon from a physical POV, but if your wife is seriously against it, you may want to weigh the payback versus the expected cost to your relationship. It would take the fun out of the whole thing if your wife is grumpy during your longer and longer practices, and if she wasn’t there cheering you on as you ran it. However, if she’s just expressing concern for you, that’s a different matter.

I trained with a marathon group (the Los Angeles Leggers) a few years ago, and there were people as old as their early 60’s. I didn’t complete it, though, because around the time we did a practice half-marathon, I realized I didn’t really want it as much as I’d thought.

Though the first guy to run the marathon purportedly dropped dead at the finish, I think your situation is different: you have lots of people supplying you with water & elecrolytes throughout the run, you’ll be wearing better shoes, you’ve benefited from a lifetime of better nutrition, and there are EMTs at the finish line.

Seriously, though, you’ve been active pretty much your whole life, so you likely don’t have any risk related to your heart. (Just to quell any concerns, you might go have a stress test (the EKG/treadmill/ultrasound test). If you can deal with the pain from your toe and you really want to do it, go for it.

11

Whaddaya mean OLDER, Bub? I’m approximately 3 months younger than you, and I’m nowhere NEAR old.

I thought I’d throw in a few comments here. I’m certified as a walking instructor and trainer by the YMCA, but have no medical background.

Your current regimen — 4-6 miles, 3-4 times a week at 8 minute miles, is not at all an unreasonable one. That is not an outrageous amount of running. Actually, it’s probably keeping your cardiovascular system nice and happy — and your relatively slow heart rate is evidence of that.

As for the pain — if your docs/physical therapists have said that you’re not doing yourself damage by continuing to run on it, then it’s really up to you. Obviously, you know that you’re going to be more prone to problems as you increase your mileage due to the strain of overuse. As a general rule of thumb, to help avoid injury, it’s recommended that you don’t increase your training by more than 10% each week (in terms of either distance, or speed, or a combination of the two.) Talk with your physical therapist about how to take care of your problem areas. They may be able to suggest some stretches or taping strategies to reduce the stress on the affected body parts. You may find it helpful to stretch and ice the areas after training, and possibly take an anti-inflammatory such as ibuprofen. (Ask your physician for his/her recommendation; I am not qualified to recommend medication.) If you find yourself relying on Vitamin I (ibuprofen) just to function, though, this is probably a sign that you are asking too much of your body with this particular regimen.

Besides repetitive use injuries, signs that you’re overtraining can include sudden unexplained weight loss, loss of enthusiasm or drive, irritability, insomnia or changes in sleeping habits, loss of appetite, excessive thirst, swollen glands, a noticeably higher than normal resting pulse (taken first thing in the morning before you get out of bed), or simply hating what you’re doing.

You’re doing the right thing by checking with your doctor before embarking on this program. They’ll probably do a treadmill ecg to see if you’re apt to keel over due to the stress. Due to your current regimen, I doubt that’s an issue.

Concrete and asphalt: A nice, spongy-surfaced track is friendliest of all to your feet and joints, but track running can be boring as all get out, not to mention difficult to have access to during your preferred time frame. Given the choice between concrete and asphalt, asphalt is a friendlier surface to your feet and knees than concrete. On the other hand, you run into a lot fewer cars on the sidewalk. When asphalt is safe, I choose it. When it makes more sense to be on the sidewalk, that’s where I stay.

As for heat: I’ll assume you know the usual advice. Wear sunscreen; make sure you stay hydrated, and learn the symptoms of heat exhaustion and heat stroke and, more importantly, if you see them coming on, ACT on them immediately rather than trying to tough it out. (See some info here.) Your weather reporters will probably announce loud and clear when there is a heat advisory on, so give some thought to skipping the workout that day, or moving it to the morning or evening hours when the heat is more bearable.

I don’t know where you live, but here in NC, I am more concerned about air quality during those hot summer days than I am the heat. If you’re near an urban area that is prone to air quality problems during the hot, humid days, I strongly recommend that you follow the ozone alert warnings that your meteorologists should be giving out. Most importantly, please realize that when the meteorologists say “Today is a Code Orange Alert day. People who are sensitive to ozone should limit their activity outside today”, THIS MEANS YOU. I think that most athletes read this as a warning to the elderly and asthmatics, and assume that their abundant good health means it doesn’t apply to them. If you read the find print, however, the high risk designation includes people who exercise outdoors. This is because you have a high respiration rate while you’re exercising, and you expose yourself to a lot more of the nasty stuff than someone who is just strolling from the car to the mall.

Here’s a site where you can see what the ozone levels are in your area. I have this map set for the Southeast, but you can go a few steps up in the url and change it to your region. I think it helps to watch the map in motion, because that gives you a better feel for when the ozone problems start to arrive. Essentially, the worst hours are typically between about 3 PM and 7 PM, when the combination of a day’s worth of heating is combined with the emissions from people commuting home.

Take the ozone alerts seriously. Although you won’t feel it happening at the time, you risk doing permanent damage to your lungs if you exercise outdoors when it’s at code orange or above. If your goal is a long and fit life, this is NOT what you want to do. Either move your workout indoors, or save it for the morning or evening hours.

Happy training!

12

Hey Dinsdale –

I’m 45 years old, 6’ 2" and 185, and jogging at a similar rate and pace. I jogged a lot when I was in my 20s, up to 50 mi/week (small town, not much to do in the evenings…) slacked off in my 30s, and now I’m hoping to get a half-marathon in this fall and go for a marathon in 2004. I’m not so hot in the speed department, but I can keep on chuggin’ along. The Coolrunning website (mentioned by In Conceivable) has been helpful to me.

I do have a “running buddy” to help keep me honest and encouraged (“honest” as in “are you hurting?” and “encouraged” as in “Let’s enter this 5-K together just for fun”). I try to vary my route so as not to get bored. Sometimes I’ll just run by the clock rather than by the mile.

All in all – Chicago marathon sounds like a good plan – keep us posted!

13

hm i dunno why you want to run the marathon. running is good, but running more than half hour at a time is pointless imho.

if i were you i would try to go down to your 185 lbs that you used to be, and do that through dieting.

i would not consider running as a way to burn calories, but as a way to elicit an anabolic response, via HGH, IGF-1 and other such garbage :slight_smile: as well as improve insulin sensitivity.

dieting some fat-ass off will further improve insulin sensitivity.

14

Thanks a lot, everyone.

Concerning the time and surfaces I face, I’m not the most easily motivated guy. I’m up and out of the house by 6:45, and there’s no way I’m getting up earlier to run. And when I get home in the evening, I would have a really hard time getting myself out to run. But when I’m at work, I have every reason to want a break from my desk. And I have running partners, and convenient locker/shower/workout facilities. Further, the Chicago lakefront is a beautiful place to experience in all seasons.

There are a couple of places where I can run on grass or crushed stone, and I take advantage of the opportunity. And in some places the bike paths are asphalt instead of concrete. But getting to the lake and running north or south, I’m on concrete probably at least 60-70% of the time, and on grass/gravel no more than 5-10%.

I don’t have any desire to hit any specific weight. I generally consider 200# to be a benchmark I’d just as soon stay below, but the main thing is if I feel good and my clothes fit. I don’t want to exert the effort it took to stay fit at 215#, but I’ve acknowledged that I’m no longer the skinny kid I was for so long. And I love eating and beer too much to deprive myself too much.

My goals, and my physical self image, have gone down a step or two. When I was training MA hard, I was working out at least 5 times a week, often 2 times a day. Sometimes as much as 4 hours in a day. IMO&E, it is just more hard work than I now wish to exert to keep up with the 20 year olds when you are over 40.

Basically, my fitness regimen is “Get the carcass moving.” Comparing myself to the 40 year olds out there - and some younger - I’m not doing too badly.

I do look for the ozone alerts, and don’t run on those days. Instead, I’ll sit on a bike indoors, or take the day off. And on really hot days, I will check the hourly forecast - often it does not get the hottest until 3-4 p.m., and I can beat some of the heat by running at 11 a.m. instead of 1. Or other times, there will be a lakefront breeze that keeps it slightly cooler. So I try not to be completely reckless about it.

15

Dinsdale, you sound alot like me when I started running, at age 41. I had spent 10 years or so getting my weight under control by going to the gym, and I was looking for a little bigger challenge. You have more exercise background than I had. I went from running about 6-12 miles a week all the way up through my 1st marathon in about 10 months. All of your reasons for wanting to try a marathon sound alot like mine. I hope you go for it. I cannot tell you how much personal satisfaction comes from working through the training, and seeing it pay off on race day. I can say that after crossing that finish line, I was 10 feet tall for weeks to come. I got in at 4:57.

Don’t let your age bother you. I run lots of races, and the 40-45 year old males are almost always the largest group of competitors. It is very common for a master (40+ yr) male to win races outright, especially at longer distances. (I guess younger folks have better things to do with their time).

As for wife and family, I’m glad that mine manage to put up with my running. I’m currently running 40 miles/week, and it does cut into family time. I usually get my long runs in early in the morning, when everybody’s asleep anyway. You must have some way of dealing with this from your MA background.

You sound like you have your medical situation well under control.
Personally, I have been to the doc exactly zero times to deal with any running problems. I’ve been either lucky or smart, I don’t know which. I run lots on asphalt and pavement. I try to beat the heat by running in the gym on a treadmill.

I will be running my fourth marathon next month, the US Air Force marathon in Dayton. It kind of gets in your blood.

The hardest part of a marathon is crossing that distance between your couch and the starting line - after that, it’s just one more long run.

16

MY humble opinion is if the doctor says it will be ok, then train and do it.

I worked the Chicago Marathon for a few years and saw the last place people. Remember you don’t have to win the damn thing, just finish. Walking parts is ok, resting is ok, Finishing is very good. There is a Firefighter that runs it every year IN FULL GEAR, BOOTS, TANK and HELMET. I saw him near the last, but he finished. Very impressive.

I also saw the people that crossed the finish line and threw up, passed out or had awful feet. Every runner should be made to go through the med tents at the marathon once. Follow a good training regime, get a running buddy and go slow.

The Chicago Marathon is (IMHO) a well run event and is a good flat easy course. Good luck, if my knees were better, I would try to do it too.

17

“Older guy”? Thanks.

-46