I have been seeing more and more about using LSD and other similar drugs to treat depression. I am very optimistic about it. As someone who has never experienced depression, I can’t say that I can relate to the depression but one thing I can relate to is the mind opening experience of those drugs, it makes me wonder if my very minimal use of those drugs in my teen years might have contributed to my lack of depression in my adult years. The one thing I can say about it for sure is that it will get you out of yourself and looking at other things. I suspect that may be a key component of the success they are having.
From personal experience I would highly recommend against using psychedelics while depressed. In an uncontrolled situation you could be traumatized for life. Even in a so called controlled situation things could go badly wrong. Its a Russian roulette answer to something that could be handeled in a better way.
I have had some great experiences with psychedelics, but a bad trip isn’t something you want to experience if you are depressed to start out with.
To paraphrase Robin Williams: The general rule is psychedelics makes emotions more intense. If you are happy to start out with you can become intensely happy. If you are an asshole, well . . .
What evidence have you seen? I suspect that it’s another case of enthusiastically reporting something for ratings rather than a strong basis in facts.
ETA
I’ve suffered from various levels of depression most of my life. I agree with Si Amigo . You really don’t want to just start tossing drugs (of any kind. LSD, Ketamine or Prozac) without knowing what effect they’ll have. As Beverly Crusher once said ‘The first rule of medicine is never make the patient worse’
If you’re interested in being pointed toward a rabbit hole …
My mother knew this man a little, and has a couple of pieces of his art on her walls.
I met him once or twice. Fascinating guy.
But this isn’t to be trifled with. If it were me, and I were interested in pursuing it, I’d find a qualified clinician-researcher with lots of experience, controls, understanding of dosage, safety protocols, etc., etc.
I own a copy of LSD And Psychotherapy. (I got it at a library sale for a buck!!! Can you believe it?) I’ve read some of it. The doc in question is hopelessly stuck in Freudianism. Even he advises against just dropping some acid to fix your problems. He recommends controlled doses in a controlled setting under the guidance of a trained shrink.
My wife uses ketamine to treat her depression. The use is under the direction of a medical doctor, and is prepared by a licensed pharmacy. The dose is low enough that she doesn’t get any psychedelic affects, but is high enough that she feels “something.” For that reason she only uses it at times when she won’t have to drive for the rest of the day.
I think it provides some preventative effect, but how much is difficult to say, and also just an anecdote.
There has been some study on microdosing LSD and psilocybin for depression. The results I’ve seen have been mixed, but promising. If you can get into a study, or are working with a psychiatrist who is supportive of trying, then it is something worth pursuing. I strongly recommend against self medicating with street drugs.
Self-dosing with psychedelic drugs for depression sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. While there have been some early promising results in controlled settings, these have involved limited numbers of participants and relatively short-term periods of study. There have been at least a couple of “double-blind” studies using psychedelics, but I’m not sure you can effectively keep patients and clinicians from knowing whether hallucinatory drugs or placebo were administered.
Seeing that a significant minority of patients have been shown not to respond to these agents, and there’s potential for causing depression and anxiety in some users, caution is advised.
Interestingly, the above link talks about activation of brain serotonin receptors as a mechanism for psychedelics relieving depression. We just saw a much-ballyhooed review of commonly used antidepressants that purported to debunk the serotonin hypothesis*, So would a comprehensive review damn psychedelics for depression on a similar basis?
*the authors of that study reportedly suggested that since current antidepressants that work to boost serotonin levels are in their view worthless, people with depression are better served seeking psychoanalysis and mindfulness therapy. Uh, no thanks.
I am depressive and have been all my teen and adult ife. I have also done a really large amount of recreational drugs, mostly psychedelics, but also ketamine, which is a dissociative
What that history teaches me is the OP premise is probably incorrect, unless I am an aberration.
And it also taught me somewhat how to handle a bad trip - I have had several - which are quite similar to a panic attack, a common symptom of severe depression. So I suppose there is some value in self dosing, but it did take quite a few bad trips - probably around 4 or 5 on large recreational doses of LSD and/or psilocybin and/or MDMA before I learnt how to cope with them.
As you can probably tell, I am not a doctor nor a psychiatrist, and I would probably not recommend this method, even if it was nominally useful to me.
In the op I did not even mean to suggest anything that was not under a doctor’s supervision I should have been more clear. I have just been running across more articles lately that we’re suggesting doctors having some success with it
Oregon is working on setting up a framework for limited psilocybin therapy.
There’s a place in my city that does ketamine therapy. It is ordered by a physician, and is not recommended until and unless more standard treatments, up to and including electroconvulsive therapy, have failed.
Using psychedelics for mental health disorders has been researched, with varying results, since the drugs were discovered mid-century.
I was hoping to hear some comments on why people think it might work, what exactly is happening in the brain to have lasting effects. I think that our brains memory is nothing more than electro-chemical responses. I suspect that depression and depressive thoughts can become habitual just based on our neuro chemistry. The psychedelics would most certainly take the brain out of the depressive zone into a very uplifting zone, all chemically reinforced by our own natural hormones. The brain might start leaning in that direction because it finds it rewarding.
what do you base this on?
I admit my study group is small, just myself. I am just suggesting things that make sense to me from my own perspective.
From what little I know about the subject, I think that’s really misguided and potentially even dangerous thinking. The only association I’ve ever heard between psychedelics like LSD and the treatment of mental disorders was pure speculation many decades ago by a handful of fringe clinicians that it might have some limited application in psychotherapy, and/or that it might help lead to a better understanding of disorders like schizophrenia because some of the effects of LSD appeared to be similar. AFAIK, nothing ever came of these speculations and no meaningful linkage was found between LSD and schizophrenia.
The attempt to consider LSD as a therapeutic drug for depression I think is particularly dangerous because LSD tends to greatly amplify fears and emotions and create fantastic and believable delusions in unpredictable ways. It has demonstrably led to probable suicides and other forms of self-harm during its heyday in the hippie counterculture of the 60s and early 70s. It’s unfortunate that drugs like cannabis have been so demonized as to undermine the credibility of those warning of truly dangerous drugs, because there really are such things.
Let's not be L-7 ;-)
“Let’s not be L-7”, means “Let’s not be square”, from the shape formed by the fingers making an L on one hand and a 7 on the other.
OP, I wouldn’t drop acid to “cure” depression. I’d start with finding a good therapist/guide, someone with experience, credentials, and references. Also you can try microdosing first make sure you don’t have adverse reaction.
I think you are somewhat correct here (again, I have no medical qualifications) and we do learn our behavior.
I currently “treat” my depression with alcohol*. This is a mind-altering chemical that is socially acceptable and cheap, compared to therapy. It is also, unfortunately a cause of depression in and of itself.
Almost all of the symptoms of severe depression also are symptoms of alcoholism; and I am sure there is a huge overlap where people suffer from both conditions.
Why would ketamine or LSD or mushrooms or MDMA, MDA, 2-Ci, 2-Cb etc change that ingrained behaviour?
Another avenue for self help in the underground world is DMT, particularly as an ayahuasca ceremony. I have not done the ceremony, but I have smoked DMT (I liked it but it is not necessarily a pleasant experience) and it did little to encourage me to change my path in life
* I also attend therapy with 2 different addiction-focused counselors & take my meds
I have zero personal interest in it and feel it should be left to professionals. I just know a lot of people this might give some hope to.
If I were in that situation, very deep and intractable depression, I would definitely consider it. Bipolarism also. There is also ayahuasca (ideally, go to the Amazon and work with a shaman), ibogaine (West Africa, same, do it there), MDMA (with a therapist), magic mushrooms (with a therapist), or LSD (with a therapist). All of these are supposedly helpful for trauma recovery as well.
Of these… I have used LSD and shrooms recreationally. Never therapeutically. I’d like to do them again more mindfully. They did leave me a bit scattered the following day, absent minded, leaving my keys at the store, so allow a day at home for re-entry. MDMA didn’t do squat for me; it’s supposed to be a sensual experience, but it just made me anxious and unable to concentrate.
I have never tried the Indigenous methods, they’re intriguing but until I really feel the call I don’t need to go and do them myself.