Public Pregnancy

Great Debates
1

When I was pregnant with my daughter, complete strangers felt compelled to “help” with my pregnancy. For instance, the Starbucks clerk said “Let’s make that a decaf latte,” and waitpeople wouldn’t give me a wine list.

What level of responsibiltiy does society have in ensuring a healthy pregnancy? Should laws be enacted so pregnant women cannot drink or smoke? Should we not pass laws, but make sure that women know that such behavior is unacceptable? Should we just assume that a woman can control her own body? How about other behavior that could be damaging to the fetus?

2

Ever see the musical “Baby?” The opening of act 2 is a little song called “The Ladies Singing Their Song,” and it’s about a first-time mother receiving unsolicited advice from every mother she met. I recommend getting the soundtrack - you’ll love it! :slight_smile:

Esprix, who is done with his hijack now

Ask the Gay Guy!

3

I see three questions here:

  1. Is it any of our business how you gestate your baby? Yes

  2. Are such people being intrusive and patronizing? Yes

  3. Should we make laws about how you gestate your babe? IMO No

If you decide to carry a baby to term, then other people do indeed have an interest that you do so correctly. The baby will become a separate person, who deserves the protection of society against anyone who might do him ill, including yourself.

Once he’s born, the members of your community are going to help educate the child, ensure that he has something to eat and has medical care. When he becomes 18, he will become our neighbor; if not gestated and raised in a reasonable manner, he has a higher chance of becoming a royal pain in the ass.

So yes, it is our business.

And yes, if you use caffeine, nicotine, alcohol, drugs, you shouldn’t be. People are trying to be supportive. Not too long ago, people made fun of pregnant women who abstained; at least now they are trying to be supportive, in our own arrogant American way.

I, personally, do try to give a pregnant woman the benefit of the doubt. I assume that she has the best interests of her child at heart and is taking steps to protect the baby. However, depending on the circumstances, I see nothing wrong with showing social disapproval if a woman seems not to be taking the appropriate steps; not for concern for her welfare but for the child’s, who cannot protect himself.

Lastly, I think that at least today, the potential for abuse for “pregnancy conduct laws” far outweighs the expected benefits. I think they would be unfairly enforced, especially against minority women. I think that strong education coupled with (relatively) minor social disapproval would have an equally positive effect with little potential for serious abuse.

If Cecil Adams did not exist, we would be obliged to create Him.

4

But SingleDad, there is no evidence that caffine in moderation will harm the baby and no evidence that alcohol in moderation will either.

5

Just having gone through this with my wife, our Our obstetrician stressed to us that Any amount of alcohol was potentially harmful to the developing fetus, and that caffeine also puts stress on it.

What may seem like a moderate amount for you may be a rather large dose for a developing child.

6

The horrid, trashy woman who lives two floors below me sat out in the yard during her pregnancy, smokin’ and drinkin’ to beat the band. After the baby was born, I went by to say hello, and her apt. was so full of cigarette smoke I had to leave—and I’ve seen her put the baby out in the direct sunshine with nothing covering it.

But you know what? It’s none of my goddam business, and I would no sooner tell her about it than I’d stick my hand in a wood chipper.

7

Scylla wrote:

Guess your wife’s just going to have to stick with good old-fashioned heroin and PCP for the time being. (KIDDING! Kidding!)

8

Eve: I have to respectfully but passionately disagree with you. I believe I have a positive duty to intervene if I see one person harming another. I must pursue the appropriate, lawful remedy to correct the situation.

In some cases, the appropriate remedies may be sparse or non-existant, which is a different reason for not intervening. But I think it is always our business when one person is harming another, especially when the person being harmed cannot protect himself. Hell, it’s even our business if a person is hurting a dog, for crying out loud!

If Cecil Adams did not exist, we would be obliged to create Him.

9

I have to agree with Eve. Its none of your business really. We have enough laws as it is. We also have enough babies. Abortion is legal and that is alot more harmful than cigarettes or alcohol to babies.

Warning The surgeon general has determined life is hazardous to your health

10

Heathen, did you read SingleDad’s post? It is our business. The child you raise will be my neighbor. He’ll be in my children’s schools. If he’s a gibbering acephalitic fetal alcohol syndrome victim, he’ll be in the hospital on my tax money.

Unless you can truly that you are unaffected by the other members of the society in which you live, we all have a responsibility to ensure that children are wanted and cared for.

And while I shouldn’t even touch your abortion stawman, you’re right, we do have a lot of unwanted children in the US. Proper education about birth control is essential, as is a change in the destructive and self-contradictory attitudes about sex in the West. And until then, I’d rather a potential mother realize she can’t take care of a child properly and have an abortion than drop another unwanted kid onto the federal teat.

-andros-

11

That’s bad science. Hey, wait a minute, I bet bad science is more harmful to people than caffeine. You ought to report your doctor to the authorities.

rocks

12

Andros, Im saying we dont need additional regulations and laws placed on pregnant women. Taxes arent going down if people are healthy: otherwise smoking, drinking, and being overweight should be illegal.

Warning The surgeon general has determined life is hazardous to your health

13

Hey, RM:

Care to elaborate?

Heathen:huh? I’m not al all sure what you’re saying. Are you saying that children are the responsibility of no one but their mothers? That society shouldn’t care what a perent does to his or her child? That taxes are the only important things in society?

Overeating harms no one but the overeater. Alcohol is restricted–by and large the drinker hurts himself. We have laws to keep it that way (abuse, DUI, etc). Inadequate laws inadequately enforced, IMO. Smoking is rapidly becoming illegal, especially in public places where people besides the smokers are being harmed.

I certainly don’t think it’s necessary to be rude, or wear jackboots. But raising a child doesn’t occur in a vaccuum.

-andros-

14

And before anyone asks: yes, my keyboard does insert the typos for me automatically so I don’t have to. Just another service from your friends at MegaCorp.

15

RM Mentock: FYI: Using truly bad science is unacceptable practice for doctors, and IIRC is usually enforced by the state board of medical examiners. In extreme cases they may be civilly liable for malpractice, and, if I’m not mistaken, potentially criminally liable.

Remember, however, that doctors are on the front lines of science. There are many semi-proven techniques which they may prescribe. They must, of course, keep a close eye on the patient in those circumstances to guard against unacceptable side-effects, and they must keep careful records so that a correct interpretation of their data can later be determined.

If Cecil Adams did not exist, we would be obliged to create Him.

16

You are in contradiction of yourself

17

I called my wife’s obstetrician, and asked him again.

He said “There is not a board certified on Obstetrician on Earth who will say that drinking even in moderation is ok for a pregnant woman”

Heavy drinking can produce fetal alcohol syndrome.

Very very light to moderate drinking, can produce a “sluggish child, cleft palate, midfacial hypoplashia (sp)as well as liver problems resulting fro the immature livers attempt to metabolize alcohol.” The lower limit for a tolerable amount of alcohol is not known. He did say, that if you had a glass or two of wine once or twice during pregnancy after the sixth month or so you “probably” wouldn’t hurt it.

He said caffeine produces spasms in the blood vessels of a developing fetus. To get an idea as to what this is like, have a friend choke you for 30 seconds straight, let go, wait a minute, do it again. Repeat for the next hour. This is what you are putting your baby through. Again tolerances differ. If yo have one sip of coffee you probably won’t do any harm.

Bad science?

18

OK, what would have happened if I went up to the woman—in the friendliest way possible—and suggested to her that she shouldn’t be smoking and drinking while pregnant?

She would have told me to go to hell and sicced her two attack dogs on me, and I would now have a quarrelsome downstairs neighbor who’d probably be stealing my mail and playing loud music specifically to annoy me.

Plus, she’d have kept right on smoking and drinking.

19

Heathen, you’re pretty new here, so I hope you don’t mind if I give you a couple of tips.

The speed of the board is such that it’s very likely someone else will post while you’re composing your reply. Therefore, don’t count on your reply showing up directly below the post your replying to. Try to reference, at least by name if not quote, who and what you’re replying to.

Also, it helps if you debate point by point. Saying “you’re in contradiction” doesn’t mean anything. Saying “you said this and later said this. That is a contradiction.” should work much better.

Thanks.

20

Quote:

He said “There is not a board certified on Obstetrician on Earth who will say that drinking even in moderation is ok for a pregnant woman”

Well, not in America, but recommendations are different in other countries. In England, for example, the official policy is somethink like no more than 14 units (whatever a unit is) per week.

A lot of countries (e.g., France) don’t have an offical policy. Most countries that do, recommend abstinence. England and New Zealand are exceptions, in that they just recommend moderation.

I do recall reading an article recently in the New Yorker, written by an American woman who had a baby in France. I think her obstetrician actually recommended a certain amount of wine.