I saw the above sign at a Madison Avenue deli this morning when I stopped off to pick up b’fast. While their heart is in the right place—certainly, pregnant women shouldn’t smoke or drink—is this even remotely legal?
[the sign actually read “Pregnant Woman.” Maybe there is one particular hard-drinkin’, heavy-smokin’ preggers dame who staggers in every day?]
That’s sanctimonious, isn’t it?
Who is to say I’m not picking up a six-pack for my husband, who desperately needs it after listening all day to me piss and moan about my swollen ankles and the way the kid is banging against my bladder.
Is it legal? I suppose a business has a right to refuse service to anyone… oh what the hell do I know?
Anxiously awaiting some lawyer to stop in…
Eve, my sweet, you gotta stop walking around in a daze grousing about the demise of the candlestick telephones, the nickel trolley fare and strawberry phosphates and look around some more. Those signs are everywhere, especially bars and such.
Don’t you recall about 10 years back the news story of a confrontation between an obviously prego gal and the barkeep who refused to serve her when she ordered alcohol? That’s when the signs began appearing. I assume some law was soon passed that permitted, if not insisted, that booze joints adopt the policy.
Was it right next to the sign reading “We reserve the right to refuse service to anybody”?
Okay, maybe my version of the answer to this question belongs in GD. But it is my opinion that this type of “parenting” of pregnant, or even POTENTIALLY pregnant women is outrageous. How do they know if they are serving women who are 6 weeks pregnant?
I agree, women who are pregnant shouldn’t drink for the health of their baby. However, I don’t think one beer 8 months into the project is particularly harmful. And I don’t think some bartender in Joe’s Pub and Grub is any authority on nutrition during pregnancy. It’s not their place to determine who is pregnant and how women should treat their bodies during pregnancy. The very idea disgusts me.
-L
In a society as litigious as the USA, this falls under CYA, not parenting. I agree that a little drink now and then doesn’t hurt a prenant woman. However, we live in a world where people aren’t willing to take personal responsibility for their own actions and they hold others responsible for NOT providing this level of parenting.
More or less unrelated to the OP, do you also regard “no shirt, no shoes, no service” policies as “parenting”? I certainly spend a lot of time trying to keep my kid in clothes, but for a store proprietor, this is just setting a minimum standard for hygiene and decorum.
Annoying, but it’s not really the fault of the business. They’re just trying to protect themselves in an increasingly litigious society. Suppose the lush mom-to-be ends up with a deformed or stillborn child. Mightn’t she sue the business that sold her the drugs? Maybe, maybe not-but you wouldn’t want to bet your business on ‘not’.
This kind of thing came up as a serious Catch-22 in employment law about ten years ago … Can a business refuse to hire women of childbearing age for jobs that deal with hazardous materials which could adversely affect a developing fetus? It was a damned if you do/damned if you don’t situation. Would you rather be sued by the woman for employment discrimination, or potentially sued for a lot more money by a person born with serious birth defects caused by the work environment?
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*Originally posted by micco *
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I didn’t think of this. Good point.
-L
I do think it’s a wrongful thing to do. Obviously selling alcohol or tobacco to a pregnant woman is hazardous to the developing infant but remember, as law current is laid out, the mother has the right to live her life in such a way that she can damage the fetus if she wishes. Given that stated belief I don’t see the point in preventing pregnant women from drinking or smoking or chewing or going on roller coasters, for that matter.
I understand the CYA factor involved here. I think it’s just a sign of a deeper problem in society. But this isn’t the place for a debate on the growth of the litigious society.
What about OTHER things that can be potentially harmful to a developing fetus. Caffeine? Aspirin? Cold medication?
Are there other business establishments (such as drug stores or supermarkets) that routinely refuse to sell certain things to pregnant women, on the grounds that they could be sued for harming the fetus? Seems like if the bartender gets to make such decisions, the drug store clerk should be able to as well.
-L
I’m not sure if it’s the same over there as it is in the UK, but I think I’m right in saying that a shopkeeper can refuse to entertain any transaction he chooses, for any reason he sees fit (in the same way as i can decide to boycott him if I don’t agree with his motives).
Although I think I’ve only heard this mentioned in the context of “You’ve got to sell it to me at that price, that’s what the label says” scenarios.
People, people, stop getting all riled up about this non-issue. You’re not seeing the forest for the trees.
This is New York we’re talking about. New York City in particular. Are you familiar with how this place works? Despite national press surrounding the the Giuliani administration that would have you think that the city is run like a boot camp, the truth of the matter is that the place is (thanks to Tammany Hall-reincarnate, John give-away-the-store Lindsay) crawling with hundreds of pandering, tin-horn, windbag liberal political hacks that will back any issue for easy votes.
They troll the headlines for the latest “outrage” that they can exploit with a fast and easy press conference and an overzealous, moronic law. All the blind-following liberal interest groups jump on their bandwagons – sanity be damned. That’s how those signs got started.
Hell, if I owned a bar I wouldn’t serve pregnant people. Yeah, you might be right, maybe one beer during your pregnancy won’t hurt the baby, but is this something I need weighing on my conscience? Hell no. If you absolutely must have the booze, I’d much rather lose one customer to a competitor than feel like slime to make a buck or avoid being accused of “parenting”.
So this is obviously sexist then, What about all of the pregnant men? We don’t matter as much as the women? Oh, wait… Um…
Carry on!
FWIW, my father is a pharmacist, and when I asked him this question he said something along the lines of, “Well if a woman comes in asking about potential side effects from taking aspirin, all we can do is tell her what we know. But if she still decides to take it, all responsibility goes to her. It would be an extrememly rare circumstance in which the doctor/pharmacist would be held responsible, since they were very clear to the “patient”. So basically, we CAN refuse to sell it to them, but we probably wouldn’t. We would just be sure to explain the possibilities, and then leave it up to her.”
In a world full of lawsuits, you have to wonder if there’s just as much chance of getting sued because you WOULDN’T sell a pregnant woman aspirin. She might consider that discrimination, the ol’ “it’s my body I’ll do what I like” mindset.
What about obese women that look pregnant? Bet he gets a lot of return business on that one!
“I’m sorry mam, I can’t serve you since you are obviously quite heavy with child”… Damn, I bet it took him a while to get back up after she knocked him flat!
Well,
I think it was one of the Carolina’s (I’m not sure but it was somewhere south) that a woman was convicted of child abuse because she, well basically, was a crack addict and she had a mis-carriage. So they prosecuted her for this and she was convicted.
Now if they do it for crack won’t they do it for booze and cigs next? And if you sold her the booze or the smokes won’t you be an accessory?
Heck I’m afraid to startle women who are with child because is she miscarries I might be tried for murder!
How do you know who is pregnant? As mentioned above, the pregnancy may not “show.”
Even the “obviously” pregnant woman may not be.
We’ve all heard the horror stories–hopefully we haven’t done it ourselves–of a person asking a heavy woman “When are you due?” when she isn’t pregnant. (My mom did this once! :o ) Some women have big bellies, especially if they have fibroids or something.
Um…yeah. Just like Miss B said…
Back when I was about 21 or 22, I had a friend who was the same age, and got pregnant unexpectedly. About 8 months into her pregnancy, she was veerrrry lonely and missing the social life she used to have. A group of friends and I decided to take her out on the town and do our best to show her a good time. She never even considered drinking - not so much because she thought that one drink would damage the fetus, but because the mere thought of alcohol made her nauseous.
We went to a few different places, had some food, and eventually decided to go to a local bar and hang out and play pool for a while. She was ecstatic - the whole evening really perked her up and made her feel young again. But when we walked into this bar, the bouncer took one look at her and said “I’ll let you in, but if I see you ordering any liquor you’re out of here. We won’t serve pregnant women.”
I was appalled. IMO, this was completely inappropriate, and I wondered about the legality of it as well.