Public school - can the admin. do this?

Factual Questions
1

The setting: a large public school district.

The situation: A recent bit of school-board (thus, district-wide) legislation, stating: "Each student shall be expected to have his/her identification card in his/her possession at all times when s/he is on Board of Education property, including transporation vehicles, or when participating in a Board of Education sponsorted activity. if the nature of an athletic or other activity makes personal posession impossible, a student shal have his/her identification card as near at hand as may be feasible.

“A student shall be expected to produced his/her identification card upon the request of a Board of Education employee in the exercise of that employee’s duty.”

The ID card is a photo ID. They used to have your student ID number and DOB on them, but that was trashed this year “for privacy reasons”. It’s got name, photo, grade level, and on the back, a sticker denoting your lunch period (if any).

We’ve been told that Campus Security is planning “spontaneous ID checks” in the next week or so. This all, to me, feels a little…Orwellian. Am I just wrong and is the district completely and totally within their rights to be doing this?

2

Usual disclaimer – I am not a lawyer.

To the best of my understanding, the district is completely within its rights to do this. Just because the building and campus are a “public” school does not mean open, unlimited access for anyone at anytime. The ID cards and visitors passes are ways to ensure that the only people there are students, staff and visitors who actually have business there.

The kunilou kids go to a nice suburban high school. Because of thefts, etc., entire wings (the band rooms, art rooms, etc.) are closed during some periods of the day. A student caught in those areas without authorization at the wrong time of day is liable for suspension, no matter how much ID they carry.

3

It’s completely legal. Some employers have the same policy. I won’t go into the reasoning behind it, because you didn’t ask. It doesn’t sound like much of a hardship to me.

4

Yes, they can do it, and it’s becoming quite common. They will tell you that it’s for your own protection, to keep out people who don’t belong there and are just there to cause trouble.

Orwellian? Maybe, but in college I had to have my ID at all times; I needed it for the library, dining, campus events, tickets to shows, registration for classes, etc. Now, I have to carry my driver’s license everywhere, not just when I need to drive, for similar reasons. It’s the way things are.

What are your objections to this policy (assuming such a question is not outside the purview of GQ)? Are the punishments for not carrying it draconian?

5

The punishment for the first offense is a week of after-school detention. I’m not sure what the second offense is, but I’ll look it up in the guidelines.

My main objection to it is that any employee may demand to see a student’s ID, at any given time, without needing to provide justification. I could be walking down the hall to my next class, and one of the campus security guys could stop me and make me show him my ID. I work as an office aide first period and spend a good deal of that time running errands all around the school - I could be stopped by any district employee (which techincally even extends to the janitors) and they could make me show them my ID - which would most likely be on the other side of the school, in my wallet, in my bookbag. That seems a bit…unfair to me. There is no grace period or anything. In NJ, if you get pulled over while driving, you get 24 hours to produce a license. No such allowances here. I see a huge opportunity for abuse with this policy, basically.

6

The solution to this is that, when you know you will be running errands that would make going back for you ID problematic, to take the ID out of you wallet and carry it on your person. It can’t be that hard to slip an ID card into your pocket, can it?

7

From a liability standpoint (again, I’m not a lawyer), a school employee (technically even a janitor) who DIDN’T stop someone and ask for ID could expose the school district to a big fat lawsuit if something bad happened.

Besides, this is hardly a new policy. When I was in high school (and I gather from your post that I’m old enough to be your father, and a little more) students who ran errands, hauled stuff from room to room, etc., always had to have a “hall pass,” signed by a teacher or administrator, which was an even more restrictive practice.

8

Lots of reasons for surveillance. Why don’t I like it?

9

I am not a lawyer, but I’m curious what “right” you think is being violated.

My public high school, in an modestly affluent Boston suburb, with no history of serious offenses did this in 1978-1980.

In fact, I was the student who suggested it. It headed off a vast array of more intrusive gestures the Administration wanted. (The fact that they fell for this otherwise useless measure shows how much they wanted to “crack down”)

In our case, the policy became a joke within months after the cards were made [few carried it regularly: the teachers and admins pretty much knew us all by sight anyway] but the IDs served us well. In today’s ludicrous school environment, it might be less benign.

IDs only seem intrusive because
a) as kids, you aren’t used to carrying them. Most adults are supposed to carry ID anyway - to drive cars, get into their company building, and sometimes to use checks, credit cards and other banking transactions. Not having one is an inconvenience to us.
b) you’re concerned about the consequences of noncompliance. This may be a legitmate concern.

What right, exactly, do you feel is being violated? The right of privacy? You have precious little “reasonable expectation of privacy” in school anyway, and certainly not the right to not give your name to a school authority. [Adults can be arrested for refusing to identify themselves to police under many conditions.]

Perhaps it’s not your name but your lunch block or class that you don’t wish to reveal? That information is assigned by the school. I doubt you’ll find legal protection there. Before you can exercise any rights you have as a student, you must first demonstrate that you are an enrolled student (authorized to be in the building), and not a young-looking adult or drop-out who is banned from the school. I’m sure you’ll agree that once they have your name, they could look up your schedule or class without violating your rights.

Of course, a major part of the policy is probably to remind you that you’re on their turf, even if it’s a second home to you

kunilou is right: it’s just an extension of common policies. The only thing it prevents you from doing is lying about your identity. The implication that you might lie may be offensive, but it’s common in our society - the ‘bad actors’ certainly wouldn’t hesitate to.

10

Clarification: We also have a (as of recently, VERY strict) hall-pass policy. Even if I’m going (literally) a mere 20 feet down the hall to the water fountain, I need to have a signed, dated pass with the time written on it. We also have a recently-installed security camera system (which was laughably easy to map out, including the three dummy cameras). There are constantly teachers and campus security folks ‘patrolling’ (the term they use) for us miscreant students.

I suppose I’m something of a dreamer; believing in “innocent until proven guilty” and whatnot. :rolleyes:

11

I’m pretty sure we don’t have that much around here. It could be even worse though - there was a big news story a while back about one school (in the US) where the tags had to be prominently shown all the time. Even worse, the student’s social insurance number was encoded in a large bar code across the front, meaning anyone who cared to be familiar with bar codes could read everyone’s SIN. :rolleyes:

12

I’m a counselor for Native American students. I work in three separate school districts, all of which require a photo ID for people to be on campus. Though I am not an employee in any of these districts, I am required to have the same photo ID as the rest of the staff. (yes, the teachers must have them.) The students require IDs as well.

The students wear their IDs around their necks–the school provides necklace-type fabric things (sorry, don’t know the proper name) for this purpose.

I am required to wear my ID at all times. (Though, I use a leather/cord holder decorated with beadwork).

Students must also wear their IDs on campus.

It’s really not that big of a deal, and not was not implemented to find “miscreant students.” Essentially, it is done to minimize school liability. Much like having school uniforms. This way, the districts feel that they can control who comes onto campus.

In this age of “zero-tolerance,” districts are implementing these policies and procedures to protect themselves.

You and I may not agree with them, but those are the rules.

Just be thankful you only have to have your ID in your possession. You could be like the students I counsel who spend days in ISS because they were not wearing their IDs or the IDs were “not visible.”

13

If you think ID checks are being carried out only against certain students, it’s conceivable that you’d have a discrimination case. It doesn’t sound like you think this is an issue, though.

The ACLU on Students’ Rights to privacy.

14

Well, since you know that this is the policy, for you to leave the ID on the other side of the school, in your wallet, in your bookbag, strikes me as stu…er, a not carefully thought out behavior. Employees at many companies routinely wear required ID tags around their necks or clipped to their clothing. You might wish to do likewise.

15

What’s to stop the ubiquitous bully from stealing one’s ID card and then having a compatriot report the offender as being cardless? I can see the rationale for the policy, but it doesn’t really seem like it would do more than be a source of useless annoyance in reality.

16

Cervaise, there’s always a way. There are security identification holders that have small steel cables running through the part that goes around the neck so that they can’t be cut off. That would make the ID card harder to steal.

Teachers would also be suspicious about how the snitch happened to have access to the information that you didn’t have your I.D. – or, if the I.D. is supposed to be visible – why the snitch is particularly interested.

Ninjachick, in 1970, I was beaten by a trespasser who was with six of his friends. I was in the emergency room for seven hours and in the hospital for three days. It’s really not always about you. And it’s not always about us. Find something worthy of your rebellious spirit.

17

Guilty of what, though? Being asked (or ordered) to show your ID isn’t a form of punishment. If school officials were deliberately abusing this authority (repeatedly singling out the same student, holding the student for unreasonable lengths of time, etc.) then you might have a case against the enforcement of the rule, though probably not the rule itself.

Other than that, I can’t get too worked up about the situation, since I’m dealing with the same thing 24 hours a day. Any police officer, anywhere, anytime, can demand to see my alien registration card and can keep me standing there answering questions for as long as he wants.

18

What is so freakin’ hard about putting the ID in your pocket? Sheesh.

19

Am I the only one who finds 1 week of in school suspension harsh? Alot of schools have “if you get X amount of suspension your expelled”. X can very but it’s usually around 20. Forget your ID 3 times and your expelled. Increadabley harsh.
I don’t have my Driver’s License with me half the time and I never get anything that harsh. The worst I got was “you should be more carefull about grabing your license” from an Officer after one of my passengers “failed to fasten his safety belt”.
I’m with Cervaise whats to stop a bully from just taking the ID? “Give me your ID or I’ll give you a swirly. If you tell anyone I’ll beat you up.” It would take just one random ID check to land that poor kid into a very a very unreasonable and harsh punishment by the school.

Also what kids who forget things? I forgot things alot when I was kid. If I a dime for every pencil I borrowed in school. I’d be rich. Is a faulty memory worthy sich a hash punishment?

Whats so freakin’ hard about puting reasonable rules in the school? Sheesh.

20

It’s a way of teaching responsibility. If I forget my work ID, I don’t get into the building. I get an aggreivating trip back to my house and back to work…to my annoyed boss. Thus, I always remember my work ID.*

I’m sure that there are procedures for reporting the id lost, as opposed to stolen. Kids are also at risk for having bullies steal their textbooks and their term papers. Bully takes your homework, bang! You either lose credit for that assignment or take a risk by trying to report the theft. The solution there is not to eliminate homework–it’s to eliminate bullying (yes, I know. Impossible).

A lot of kids who are forgetful will have IEPs, and procedures to help the student remember will be written into them, as will, I’m willing to bet, a more lenient punishment schedule. As for the kids who are just plain forgetful, it’s a good way to start drilling the importance of being prepared. Get the forgetfulness under control now, before they find themselves driving home with the baby in its carrier on the roof of the car.

  • Yeah, I’ve jinxed it now. I’ll forget it tomorrow, you watch.