Another film/crime q, this time from Pulp Fiction.
At the start Pumpkin explains;
He says it worked and that there probably never was a little girl; point being that criminals didn’t even need a shotgun or pistol any more. Has this ever been done in real life? What would a bank do in this situation?
JFGI just gets me requests for phone traces on ‘traditional’ bank robbers.
JFGI is a great acronym (and new to me)! For the record, I don’t always rob banks with cell phones, but when I do I use Samsung phones.
In real life, you don’t need a gun and you don’t need to enter a branch. Thieves do it electronically, or with internal connivance. The fact is banks are the easiest to rip off among large businesses.
I don’t remember a case of branch robbery through extortion though. For one, there’s very little free cash that the manager can grab and hand over. The extortionists have to wait for the delay lock on the vault to open. And there are strict controls on taking out cash from the vault so the victim (assume the manager) cannot take out cash without someone noticing and reporting it to management, and management will not allow the bank to give in. The principal of “dual/multiple custody” in handling cash or critical documents is at work here.
Among the small, funny, and remote ways some people have attempted to rip off a bank was one involving a check payable to a certain Carmelita Monasteryo for $500. She (the holder) showed identification and asked that the amount be deposited to her (recently opened) account once the check clears. It didn’t clear. It turns out it was an altered canceled check, for $50, payable to the Carmelite Monastery.
Not exactly the same, but close:
Police Seek Man Who Robbed Bank With a Phone Call
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/05/17/police-seek-man-who-robbed-bank-with-a-phone-call/?_r=0
^
Teller cash, from the looks of it. Once caught, the guy is going to get a lot of ribbing from the cops for going through a lot of trouble for just a couple thousand bucks (and maybe a few rings and watches.)
In this case the robber did not use the phone as a tool for extortion but was engaged on the cell phone throughout four robberies. She had a note threatening to shoot but only in one of them did she show a gun.
If you say, “I have a gun,” tellers are instructed to give them the money whether they see a gun or not. You could just be holding your hand in your pocket, but the teller is not supposed to call you on it.
So, you can easily rob a bank without a gun. The bit with the phone doesn’t make any difference, and is needlessly complicated.
Also check Master Detective magazine “$50,000 or your life” mid-seventies.
Multiple banks in the Midwest, They got caught in Memphis.
… “WELL!?”
“I’m thinking it over!”
Seriously, great post and welcome to the SDMB.
Not just a ‘federal bank’ but anywhere. Employees are instructed (or should be) to comply with all the robber’s demands. There’s not much good in being the hero and a whole lot of harm, however, a lot of people see the gun, hear what the robber has to say and take it very personally so they do what they can to thwart the crime. Really and truly, when someone holds up a store, assuming it’s not the owner at the register, there’s not much reason for them to not say ‘here’s the cash, have a nice day’.
A couple of years ago my store was held up by an man armed with a gun hidden in a paper bag. Now, after the fact, when I had some time to think about it, my assumption was that he either didn’t have a gun at all, or he did, but he was assuming that by keeping it in the bag (but pointed at the cashier), no one could prove he was armed should anything become of it, kind of along the line of the old ‘are you a cop, you have to tell me if you’re a cop’ thing.
Anyways, he didn’t know I was in the store, but I heard the commotion and, while I stayed out of sight and called the police, I also armed myself in case he decided this wasn’t just a money grab situation. As the situation [with the police] was winding down, I asked them what would have happened if I had shot him (FTR, had I seen the gun, it would have been covered under reasonable defense of another person). The officer told me I would have been totally in the clear. I even asked what would have happened if they took the bag off his [now dead] hand and there wasn’t a gun, and he said since he claimed he had the gun, he was robbing the store and he was threatening the cashier’s life, I would have been in the clear had I shot him.
They also told me that even though no one ever actually saw the weapon, it was still being reported as an armed robbery and if the person is caught, that’s what they’ll get charged with.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying I wouldn’t have been arrested as part of the procedure, but I would have been released and he wasn’t saying there wouldn’t have been a civil/wrongful death suit*. All he was saying, and I’m not here to defend him if he’s wrong, is that he claimed to have a gun, he acted like he had a gun, he made threat against someone’s life, I would have been within my rights to use lethal force to mitigate the threat.
*Interestingly, based on other cases, if I had shot him and had been charged with something, it’s his getaway driver that probably would have been charged with his death (as an accomplice) in the end, not me.
PS, you can think you’ll react a certain way or know you’re supposed to react a certain way or go through all kinds of training or tell other’s what to do during an armed robbery, but until it happens, you really don’t know. One of my employees looked like his feet were glued to the floor. When I mentioned that to one of the officers, he said that freezing up was really common.
PPS, this was all over very quickly. Two local officers were on my property within less than a minute, but he was already gone. Not knowing what was going on, they stayed outside, guns locked and loaded, so to speak, so I walked out with my arms up to give them the all clear (they all know me). Now I get to add “I’ve had two loaded, safeties off, AR-15s pointed at me” to my list of ‘things that probably didn’t happen to you’. The other being, learning how to ride a motorcycle in a place that, should I have lost control, I would have hit an airplane.
The standard in most larger businesses, including banks, is if you are threatened, hand over the money and let the guy leave. Don’t even look like you’re pressing the alarm. A lot of these guys are either high or nervous as hell (or both). The amount the business would have to shell out if you end up in hospital 9or for your funeral) is peanuts compared to what’s in the till.
Of course, banks allegedly have trigger alarms that go off if the large bills are emptied out of the till, so pushing the silent alarm would be redundant.
the problem is, how are you going to make a living as a bank robber. This is why the movie heists go for cleaning out the vault. Getting all the money one teller has will net maybe a few thousand. Beyond that my teller at my bank has to walk away to go get authorization, then go to the vault to get the amount. A few thousand? To make $60,000 a year - a passably decent living - you need to hit up a bank every month for $5,000, meaning sooner or later you’ll get caught and / or run out of banks.
Instructions even include don’t follow the crook outside, don’t chase him. Every so often there’s some guy like a Walmart supervisor or gas station clerk who is fired for chasing a crook. It’s not worth it.
I heard the possibly apocryphal story in college of a “nice” girl from some private school who got a summer job when she turned 18 working in a bank (back around 1970). She told her boyfriend about the rules, and they decided he would come in one day, give her a hold-up note, she’d load up the moneybag and wait until he was out the door to press the alarm. She pressed the alarm a few seconds too early, and the cops were almost right there, so they got caught.
If you are a criminal then you will generally weigh up the risk/reward of any enterprise. Obviously, if your cognitive functions are impaired by drugs or whatever, that decision will probably be faulty, but to soberly plan a robbery, you must find a target that promises a reward sufficient to justify the risk. Banks are simply not worth the risk.
Lat year in the UK, we had a spate of ATM robberies. The crooks picked vulnerable machines and ripped them out of the wall with a JCB or a 4WD truck. As far as I know, few were caught, but ATMs are much harder to get at these days.
I’m pretty convinced that most criminal don’t. As demonstrated here for banks, the gain for most crimes aren’t even remotely worth the risk.
What was your dad’s role in this? His name appears in the name of the case but is not mentioned anywhere in the body of the case.
I don’t know about banks but this happens with private citizens: “A virtual kidnapping and a mother’s five hours of hell.”
JCB?
A company that makes tractors/backhoes etc.
I thought it was a Japanese credit card.
I’m told the *real *money lies in hijacking armored trucks. You only have a handful of unmotivated guys to deal with and can quickly disappear in traffic once you’re done. Of course, it takes quite a bit of gear and preparation to crack those cans, jam their radios & cells so they can’t warn backup, you have to know how to disable the paint sprayers and so on. So it’s not for idjits and hopeful amateurs.
There was an amusing case here in France a few years ago where the *driver *of one such truck just sped off while the two other guards were out fetching coffee. I mean, why not ? He later gave himself up along with the truck, but the 11.5M euros inside were gone and he didn’t say where. 9M have been recovered, but there’s still 2.5M out there waiting for him.
I just checked and he’s been out of prison for 3 years, having done 4 inside.
As the UK moves away from cash towards electronic, the number of armoured cars has considerably decreased - no payroll deliveries for a start.
The point about risk/reward applies to the kind of professional criminal who is capable of organising a robbery, as opposed to the opportunistic (and probably drugged) thief who robs a store of a few hundred pounds, or burgles a house for whatever they can find laying around.
The Hatton Garden Heist is the kind of thing I mean, and that seems to have been organised and carried out by some pretty old-time criminals. I suspect the modern ones are sitting at their keyboards stealing our money in relative safety and comfort.