Q. for lawyers and cops about accidents and police reports.

Factual Questions
1

When we were on the east coast in June, my wife spent a couple of days in Philadelphia doing research. After she left the archive on her first evening, around 5pm, she was crossing the street in downtown Philly and got hit by a car.

She was crossing with the WALK sign, and there was a car waiting to make the turn. A van, traveling too fast, lost control and slammed into the back of the waiting car, which jumped forward into the pedestrian crossing and hit my wife right at knee level. She said that it hurt, but that she wasn’t sure whether she should go to the hospital or not. one of the bystanders was a doctor, and she told my wife that in cases like this, especially with knees, it’s always best to get checked out to rule out fractures, torn ligaments, etc. So my wife ended up in the back of an ambulance and went to the ER, where they X-rayed her (and probably did some other stuff) and concluded that it was just bruising, with no likelihood of long-term damage.

Anyway, the police responded to the scene Apparently, after hitting the car, the van jumped the kerb as well. Anyway, in taking down all the details, one of the cops talked to my wife and took her name before the ambulance took her away.

Fast forward to this week, and the first bill arrives, a $512 charge for the ambulance ride. Of course, this is almost exactly the same amount as our insurance deductible (i sometimes wonder if there’s a conspiracy), so we’re $500 out of pocket for that. There will also be hospital bills, most of which will be covered, but which will also have a deductible amount that we’ll have to pay for.

So the next step is to get the out-of-pocket money from the at-fault driver, or, more correctly, his insurance company. The first thing my wife does is call the Philadelphia police to get a copy of the accident report. She spends a bunch of time on the phone with a woman at the police, only to find out that her name never made it onto the report.

So, my first question is: is that how things should be done? That is, if a cop responds to an accident, sees that one of the victims is being taken to hospital in an ambulance, and talks to her and takes down her name, shouldn’t he put her name and the circumstances on the goddamned accident report? I admit i’m no expert about police procedure in cases like this, but i always thought that the purpose of an accident report was to serve as a record of what happened, who did it, and to whom.

My wife got the name and address of the at-fault car’s owner from the person at the police station, and is sending a certified letter to the owner asking for the insurance information. She knows the name of the police officer, and there is also an ambulance report that serves as a record of her ambulance ride and the injury. She also has the names and contact details of at least three people who witnessed the accident, and who offered their details as witnesses in case it became necessary.

The next question, i guess, is what the next best course of sction might be. I’m not looking for any advice here that should be referred to a lawyer, just some general info. Should she try and contact the cop? It was my impression that, even if the name didn’t make it into the police report, it should be in the cop’s notebook or whatever they use to record information at scenes like this.

If the van’s owner doesn’t respond to her letter, or there’s any problem getting reimbursed for our out-of-pocket expenses, we’ll get a lawyer. Right now, i’m just interested in whether there is some normal procedural thing that we’re missing in trying to deal with this.

2

I suppose different police departments have different rules for the contents of the police report. Like you, I’d have expected your wife’s name would be mentioned. Nevertheless, it’s not a huge deal–most laypeople seem to think the police report is record evidence or pretty close to it. It’s not; it’s just regular old hearsay (often hearsay upon hearsay) and you’d need an exception to get it in (such as present recollection refreshed* or past recollection recorded; getting the narratives of the actual witness would need another hearsay exception for admission). This involves subpoenaing the officer to testify; at that time he can testify that he saw your wife, the plaintiff, in the ambulance although he did not name her in the incident report.

A demand letter is par for the course at this stage, I guess. It probably would be more effective if it came on law firm stationery, but that costs money. Are you prepared to prosecute a suit in Pennsylvania? That’s where jurisdiction lies in this case (unless there is some crazy law school fact pattern twist in the offing that you haven’t told us about, but I assume this isn’t an exam question on forum non conveniens).

  • I know this is not actually a hearsay exception, but this is where it fits most logically in my analysis.
3

Well, that’s the question, isn’t it?

As i said, the deductible for the ambulance ride was $500. I’m not sure offhand what the deductible will be for the ER visit (probably either $500 or $1000 - i need to look up our policy). So, we’d have to work out whether it was worth trying to sue for $1000 or $1500. It’s a problem because, while it’s not a lot of money in the big scheme of things, it’s more than we have lying around right now. I only just got my green card, and don’t have work yet (and in California, it’s not exactly a good time to be looking), and my wife works for the state and is looking at a 10% pay cut in the near future as part of the budget crunch.

My wife got rear-ended about 7 years ago in Baltimore, and when the other guy’s insurance wouldn’t pay up for her medical expenses, she got a lawyer working on contingency and he got them to fork over what she was owed, plus a couple of grand more for the trouble. She was not looking for anything more than what she paid out for physical therapy, etc., but the insurance company ended up having to pay more because they fucked around.

Same in this case: we’re not looking for some payday; we just don’t want to be out of pocket for something that was completely someone else’s fault.We have, as i said, a bunch of witnesses. I wonder, though, whether a personal injury-type lawyer would even be willing to take on such a small case.

4

You asked “whether there is some normal procedural thing that we’re missing in trying to deal with this.” In your post, you mentioned that you are in contact with your insurance company and have paid a $500 deductible for the ambulance ride.

Are you dealing with your medical insurance, homeowners’ insurance, or auto insurance? Calling your homeowners’ insurance company or auto insurance company would probably be my next move. This is exactly the service you pay for when you buy insurance. Your representative can give you more information, but they should be able to pull the van owners’ insurance information saving you from wondering if they’ll ever respond. And your insurance company should (that’s their job) work with you to get you the compensation you deserve.

BJ

5

Get a copy of the police report. It should have both driver’s insurance information. File c claim with both companies (no you can’t collect twice, in case one set of info is bogus or what ever) Also if your auto insurance is with the same carrier as one of the driver’s this may speed up the claim.

6

You might not want to limit your claim to just insurance deductibles; consider medical bills (all of them), pain & suffering, etc. Figure out your max potential claim and start there. If you start too low, you could end up lower. Also, police reports are not the end all be all; it’s what people will testify to if called into court that generally counts most.

7

You likely can’t limit your claim for just your out-of-pockets. Your insurance company also may have a right to collect whatever they pay from the responsible driver as well.

IANAL, but I am an insurance adjuster in Indiana. I’m not familiar with Penna law in the least so consider the source… (in no particular order)

  1. Call your own auto insurance carrier for your medical coverage. You will likely not have any deductible or co-pay out-of-pocket expenses up to a set limit. (e.g. $1000, $5000, etc.)

  2. Once your wife is done treating, work with your insurance company to determine who the responsible driver is insured with and file a claim with them. Your insurance company will have the right to recover whatever they’ve spent and your wife will have the right to claim “pain & suffering” as well as any out-of-pocket expenses (e.g. lost wages, etc.)

  3. If the responsible driver’s insurance company is uncooperative, then you can certainly get a lawyer to represent you and your claim.

  4. If you “just don’t want to be bothered with it all”, then contact a personal injury lawyer now for advice.

  5. Calling the officer or desk sergeant will not likely bring any results but you can certainly try. Many times I’ve found that the officers are damned defensive about their reports and refuse to file a corrected report. However, s/he may have your wife’s name in the notes and may file an amended report. Because your wife went to the hospital by ambulance, there is a clear record that she was indeed the person involved in this accident and is not some fraudulent claimant looking to score a couple of bucks.

  6. If the responsible driver doesn’t have insurance, then your policy may also have Uninsured Motorist coverage that will cover you for everything.

Lastly, I’m glad your wife’s injuries were minor. Best of luck to you both.

8

Thanks for the advice, folks. Just to straighten a couple of things out, because i might not have been clear enough in the OP:

The $500 deductible i was talking about was from our health insurance company. They basically sent us a check for $12, which is the $512 cost of the ambulance ride minus the $500 deductible.

It never occurred to me that household insurance might cover this. We don’t have homeowners’ insurance (we don’t own the place), but we do have renters’ insurance. Not sure if that covers stuff like this; i’ll have to check the policy.

Regarding things like medical bills, pain and suffering, etc.: my wife is absolutely fine, and has no ongoing pain and suffering, no missed work, and no ongoing costs associated with this incident. The x-ray showed no damage except, i think, some bruising, and she was walking around on it fine the next day.

We haven’t received that actual medical bills from the hospital yet, but the total is going to be $512 for the ambulance ride, plus whatever the cost is for an ER visit with an X-ray (i’m guessing a grand or two - does that sound right?).

So, cost to us will be:

Ambulance: $500
ER: Cost of visit minus amount of deductible (not sure yet how much that is).

I just want to make sure that we do not have to pay those costs out of our own pocket.

Ruby: our car insurance is with AAA. It never occurred to me that our own car insurance might cover stuff like this if our car was not involvced. I’ll have to check the policy.

To tell the truth, the whole thing is rather new to me. I grew up in Australia, and i don’t think i had ever even seen a medical bill until i came to the United States. I’ve been lucky enough to lead a very healthy and injury-free life so far (knock wood), and whenever i saw the doctor i was always “bulk billed” (i.e., the doctor just submitted my Australian Medicare number and was paid directly by the government).

Anyway, if anyone has any other advice in light of my further explanation, i’d be happy to hear it.

9

I have zero expertise in this area, but it strikes me that a major ally would be your health insurance company. As mentioned, they get to collect from the at-fault person, too. So make sure they know that the injury was caused by someone else. They may well have the attorney capacity to take care of negotiating with the driver’s insurance company.
But I have no idea if your health insurance company would also be making sure that your deductible is being collected, too. One would hope so, but they aren’t running a charity, you know.

10

I second the recommendation to contact your health insurance people. Often in these situations they will sue on your behalf and refund your deductible if they win.

It seems like there’s a very good chance the negligent driver’s insurance company will want to settle.

Good luck.

11

And your auto insurer. Apparently I have hit-as-a-pedestrian coverage in my PIP.

12

Thanks folks. We’ll check out both insurers (health and auto) and see what the story is.

13

I haven’t even read any of the responses, but I defend insurance companies in road wreck cases and situations like yours. Get thee to a plaintiff’s lawyer, and they’ll not only answer your questions but should be able to resolve them.

And the phone book is filled with them, but don’t go with the most aggressive advertisers, because often they just churn and settle. There may be a 3rd party referral service, but I’d just call a bunch of lawyers and see if you hear some sort on consensus message about who’s good and local. And as they say, you only pay them if you get paid.

But I’d answer your questions and take your case on 1/3–hehehe

Good luck.

14

No. Let a plaintiff’s lawyer do that on contingency. I’m serious. (and your health care provider? pffft–get an attorney) This case may be worth many thousands. And she may need it later on.

15

Well, there’s no doubt that we could do with the money.

But, if you’ve read my further explanations, you’ll know that the most we are likely to be out of pocket for this incident is $1500. While getting “many thousands” would sure help us out, i’ve never really been a believer in suing for more just because you can.

As i said above, she has no ongoing physical problems resulting from the collision, she didn’t miss any work nor incur any other non-medical financial burden, and the whole thing, from being struck to leaving the ER, took no more than 3 hours of her life. We’re not really looking to make this a payday; we’re just hoping to make sure that we don’t have to fork over $1500 that we can’t afford right now. If the only way to ensure we’re not out of pocket is to get a lawyer, then we’ll definitely do that, but we’re not looking for a lottery win here.

I believe firmly in the value of legal suits to recover damages, and for pain and suffering, if such occurs. I also think that tort reform advocates are too often in the pockets of insurance companies and other businesses that don’t want to be held responsible for negligence or malicious actions. But i also think the whole system would be a bit more sane if people didn’t try to get as much as they can whenever they can, even when it bears no relationship to the actual losses incurred.

It is good to know, though, that you think a plaintiff’s lawyer might take this case on contingency, because it might yet come to that.

16

Heh, mhendo, thanks for being the voice of reason. Your wife didn’t win the lottery but you would be surprised at how many people approach me with that attitude no matter what the injury.

For every McDonalds hot coffee case there are millions of claims that are settled reasonably either with or without an attorney.

Plaintiff’s lawyers are a good thing, especially if you find that you are at a stalemate with the other person’s insurance company. Filing a lawsuit just because you can costs everyone time and money.

17

I would have hoped you would point out that short statutes of limitations and repose combined with the effects of res judicata require plaintiffs (and in particular, their attorneys) to plead aggressively. Subsequently discovered injuries arising out of the same cause of action cannot be sued upon a second time (although the unknown injury rule may allow recission of a settlement); on the other hand, if you wait for all of these injuries to manifest, you may end up being time-barred. It is not just “jackpot justice” but savvy lawyering that disfavors this notion of staying one’s hand when filing suit.

18

I completely understand this, and i certainly don’t think every suit is unnecessary or excessive.

I guess it’s possible that we’re wrong, and that some other injury will emerge, but my wife got hit in the knee, and the knee is fine. She had x-rays, was able to walk out of the ER under her own steam, and has been going to the gym 4 times a week since then (including a half-hour on a cardio machine each time) with not a single problem.

At the time of the accident, she wasn’t even sure whether it was necessary to go to the hospital at all, but the doctor bystander and the ambulance paramedics encouraged her to go, just in case the damage was more extensive than it first seemed.

Believe me, if we thought there were any chance for ongong pain, suffering, and expenses, i’d have no compunction about getting a lawyer to go ahead with a suit. But right now, all we really need is to be reimbursed for out-of-pocket expenses.

19

Regardless of whether there may be ongoing pain and suffering, she has already suffered pain and that is usually claimed and there is nothing wrong with claiming it and being paid for it.

Even if you get the max out of this case, it probably will not amount to any lottery win.

Normally, people ask for all medical bills to be paid (out of pocket or not), plus pain and suffering… plus lost wages, etc., but that doesn’t seem to apply.

There’s nothing wrong with asking them to pay all the medical bills in full since they are the ones at fault.

Normally, people take the money paid out from settlement and try to get their own medical provider to take less than full payment on the medical bills from the settlement amount. Once the injured party comes to an agreement with the medical provider, they usually pay the medical provider from the settlement proceeds and keep the remainder. The system seems to work and the person doing the wrong pays everyone, as they should… not just the personal out of pocket costs of insurance co-pays.

When all is said and done, people usually end up with an amount the is fair under the circumstances, and in cases like this, it’s more than out of pockets but less than a jackpot. It’s an amount that is generally considered fair. Seeking a fair amount of compensation is not the same as looking to win a lottery.

Pulling numbers out of my ass (no correlation to your case):

If the medical bills are say $1000 (total, not out of pocket), people might claim another $1000 in pain and suffering, for a total claim of $2000.

If they will pay $2000 to settle, then sometimes the medical provider will cut the bill down to say half, so $500 to pay med bills and $1500 to the injured party. Hardly a lottery win.