This is UK stuff though it is “clusterfuck” kind of stuff.
A dozen or so women were having a meeting in a Quaker Meeting House in London.
Twenty plus Metro cops smashed the doors down and arrested everyone (it’s thought at least one was an undercover cop and another a reporter) - yet the logical thought it it was a was a way to grab phones and laptops,
The Quaker’s - mighty fine people - they call each other “Friends” are mightily miffed at - to their recollection - is the first such invasion “in living memory” at well let’s Murdoch’s folk tell it:
No tea for the cops!
I haven’t seen yet any coverage on the Guardian, though wanted to say that that Quaker’s are going to protest!
Tomorrow (Thursday) they will set up and sit in wooden chairs in front of Scotland Yard and glare at them (the building?)
In case anyone misunderstands this, there is a denomination called the Religious Society of Friends. They are often called the Quakers. They are different from other Protestant denominations in several ways. One is they don’t have ordained ministers.
Dunno what these folks call themselves or ordain, yet it was a “Quaker Meeting House” and it’s people who consider themselves Quaker’s who are righteously pissed off angry at outrageously Gestapo behaviour.
(my own characterisation as Gestapo - and maybe they wouldn’t say outrageous yet I damn well will)
In the past a protest group has caused damage and disrupted traffic:
‘British climate protest group Just Stop Oil, whose high-profile stunts have included throwing soup at a Van Gogh painting and disrupting sporting and theatre events’
Apparently they have stopped, but the police claim that a new group have publicly stated they are going to start similar disruption.
(I don’t know who is in the right, but that’s the police side of things.)
There are many Quakers in the Philly area even today. William Penn (the man the state is named after) was a Quaker. He believed in wacky things like nonviolence and treating the indigenous peoples with honesty and respect. Many white Quakers were abolitionists and worked in the Underground Railroad.
I can easily see Quakers organizing a protest against a law they feel is immoral. I can easily see them breaking laws while demonstrating. I cannot see them being violent or doing anything to justify this kind of response.
Looks like they were planning protests over lack of action on climate change. There have been a bunch of protests from Just Stop Oil involving blocking roads, destroying art, and other actions that are probably counterproductive, and the government has been clamping down on them.
The UK has pretty Draconian laws on gathering, communications etc compared to the US, and the police have form for this kind of overreaction to non-violent criminals (and underreaction to violent ones) so it’s not too surprising.
Quakers are a Christian denomination that don’t have ministers or AFAIK any kind of hierarchy, they are pacifists and were greatly involved in campaigning to end slavery in the past. At their meetings, instead of having a preacher at the front of the room, everyone sits in silence until someone feels moved to speak (presumably by god), and anyone can do so. They’re also big on philanthropy.
The women arrested weren’t Quakers, they just hired a meeting room from them. But AFAIK none of these climate protestors have been violent. It’s just bad policing.
You don’t think Police have a duty to prevent crime? Would you say the same about a terrorist cell?
I don’t know anything about this group, but there is a difference between organising peaceful protest and organising criminal damage, and if the Police think the group are planning the latter, you think they should sit and wait for it to happen?
The BBC article suggests it was about Gaza, or both, it’s not very clear.
I had to check the date of the article when I read this bit, in case we were being pranked:
Mr Woolford described wanting to keep the situation calm but also to show his “outrage” - so he made a cup of tea and didn’t offer the police officers any.
It was the “only resistance I could put up,” he said.
He added that the police raid apparently interrupted a counselling session and a life drawing class - “although fortunately they didn’t see the model”.
This is a rather old description of the Religious Society of Friends. Most Quakers in the US belong to Meetings which are barely distinguishable from the average Protestant sect. They don’t have silent meetings, they have preachers who give sermons, they sing and dance at meetings. They are not exactly pacifists, but decry violence and wars and while easily given Conscientious Objector status in the military they still have served in all of America’s wars. They don’t have a strict hierarchy still belong to national and worldwide congregations with a set of Standards and Practices. It’s a much more complicated history than traditionally described.
I was in a relationship with a guy from a Quaker family after university, and this is what he told me. I never went, but he thought it was much better than a traditional church service. Maybe it’s changed since, or maybe they are just more old-fashioned in London?
I agree, but breaking the door down and bringing 30 police to arrest 6 women is OTT. Especially when they are seemingly afraid to police public protests that threaten other citizens.
The Omnicause.
I don’t have much sympathy for these people - they are stupid and annoying, and the UK government doesn’t have the power to fix the issue anyway - but I don’t approve of this heavy-handed policing.
That may well be. The practice started in England and they could be more traditional there. However, they represent a small fraction of all Quakers worldwide. Africa has the largest population of Quakers in the world with North America following second. A group of US Quakers is currently suing Homeland Security to prevent them from arresting houses of worship. This is traditional Quaker political activity found across the world.
Not a very Quakerly response, and you are likely to make a mess and hurt yourself or somebody else by shaking a cup of hot liquid at them.
The English origins of the RSOF are well known and respected among the modern practitioners. As a protest of the major Protestant religion at that time and place, the state controlled Anglican Church. Quakers were more in line with US protestant movement that developed in that sense, but not sharing the same alternative practices that other sects followed.
BTW: Former Mod Twixster (is she still with us?) was a birthright Quaker.
I feel very fondly towards Quakers, they always seem so non-judgemental, which is something others religious groups could learn a thing or two from.
I went to a school which was one of the first ‘secondary education’ schools for girls in the UK, founded by Quakers (The Cadbury family - of chocolate fame), because they felt 19th century girls had a rum deal as far as education went. I followed that by going to art college in Bournville, the model village built around the Cadbury factory in Birmingham (England). Being ‘Quaker country’. there was no pub, which was a great shock to us art students, but the village was a positive oasis in this grimy Victorian industrial city. Plus we got free chocolate.
Yeah, the Quaker’s themselves were not arrested. They did mind the Metro police - whom they could see stalking the place through the windows - suddenly breaking down the door.
I don’t know all the details of the legal system yet some were released (perhaps the rumoured undercover cop and/or the reporter though I would think one or both would rather keep their cover). On one murdcoch-type program it was said some (maybe all) were not actually charged with anything yet put on some kind of bail that prohibits them from meeting or talking to others and of course not doing what they had not been charged with again. I’ve also heard they may be charged with “conspiracy to commit a public nuisance” where I’d logically associate “conspiracy” with things like murder or overthrowing the state. Most consider it just police harassment and a convenient way to sieze phones and laptops.
The Quaker’s are going to protest what they rightly consider a violation of their Meeting House - as has been written, “for the first time in living memory”.
They are going to sit in wooden chairs on the sidewalk in front of Scotland Yard. And glare at the detectives and the building. And if there is tea to be had, the cops are not getting any.
