and
What’s that called when you ask a “question” you already “know” the answer to?
My Canadian neighbors, is this due in part, or whole, to the bilingual problem? Is that the root issue that sparks the desire to seperate?
Y2K, BFD
Well, I will give you my limited (west coast) impressions on the language question…
The initial impetus behind the separatist movement was the feeling (amongst the Francophone residents, anyways) that the cultural differences in Quebec were not adequately recognized not only in Quebec, but across the country. Language plays a large part in these cultural differences, or at least it is the easiest basis for separating the “distinct” from the “less-distinct” Quebecois. Canada has two official languages, not that you would know by walking around the English centers. In urban Quebec (I gather) many shops and other sites were billingual by default, with large populations of anglos and francophones. While the rest of the country was (is) solely english.
Federal laws of one type or another dictate that federal operations have to be bilingual, but between provincial divisions and lack of any enforcement (what kind of penalty could be imposed?)all we are left with are mandatory french language classes until grade 10.
So, as a member of the French Canadian population, the only place you see your traditions and language being celebrated, or even acknowledged is in your own province. Hence the country seems to get a whole lot smaller (culturally (sp?) anyways).
So all of a sudden you realize that while the experiences you had growing up and living in Quebecare similar to those the majority of Canadians experienced (Igloos, Polar Bear Hunts, Celine Dion), there are few avenues for you to share them with anybody outside of Quebec.
Then the politicians get involved. I guess to summarize, language is a part of it. But the things that make Quebec so unique are found in some capacity all over the country and (I feel) can’t really be put down to one or two or a dozen tangible points. I mean Acadia has a very unique blend of culture (sometimes refered to as Fringlish). But can they separate too? We have a very diverse group of people (as do all countries) whose disctinctness contributes to everything that is Canada. But they are all much more than just languages…
kylen
Well, I remember when the referendum was happening, I used to chat with a young man from Alberta (From a town outside of Edmonton). Anyway, I asked him what he thought, and he said “We’d have to beat them back into being a part of Canada” He was probably joking, but he did say that he was not very happy Quebec wanted to separate from Canada.
Sounds like a Quebec secession would do more good than harm to the Canadian economy.
The savings on road sign translators alone will probably cover the Canadian Federal government’s lost revenue.
I don’t think the English speakers of either Canada or the U.S. give much thought to the extent of the friction that seems to exist between the two cultures.
When I lived in Alberta (Calgary and a small town outside Calgary), there was a fairly significant, if usually unspoken, undercurrent of contempt for and anger towards “the Frogs.” It was, if anything, analogous to the popular conception Americans have of the French, or at least of Parisians. If you ask Americans who have never even left this country which foreign people are the most arrogant and obnoxious, the French would probably head the list (my impression); this, despite the fact that most respondents have probably never met or dealt with a French citizen. That perception just seems to be an accepted fact among English speakers, from what I can tell. In Canada, that perception seemed to be applied to French-Canadians rather than the French proper.
At the very least, if such frictions are real and not just peculiar to the sample of English speakers I have met in my life, it would take a certain tolerance and politeness in everyday and political life to avoid bringing them to the surface. Active efforts to rock the boat, like the separatist movement is, would probably not meet that standard.
Thanks, Kylen, for that inside track on Canadian affairs. If you’re French Canadian why are you on the West Coast of Canada? Is’t that mostly English speaking?
merci, mon ami
Y2K, BFD
And we never even really got a chance to thank you for that, or see if you’d consider doing it again!
–
peas on earth
First of all, Patricinus, that war you speak of was in 1812, and it was when Canada was a mere colony of England that your British rulers burnt down our capitol.
The ONLY time we will EVER see you Snowbirds on equal footing with the good old US of A militarily is in the South Park movie there, Pal. Why you . . WE EVEN BEAT YOU IN WORLD CUP HOCKEY!!!
OK enough smack! I reality I LOVE Canada it is a beautiful country.
BUT . . .on this subject, and it was brought up before, are French-Canadiens REALLY that nasty to American tourists? I remember when my Mom and Dad too me to Quebec in 1979 all the talked about was how nasty those “Frogs” and “Frenchies” were to them because they did not speak French.
NOW . . I had the pleasure of visiting Montreal this past summer, and even though I cant speak a word of French (except for the French phrase for “Can you speak English?”) everyone I ran into was warm and very freindly (and by the way, not only is Montreal a beautiful city . . the women ., . . OUI OUI!!!)
THEN . . a few weeks ago my buddy was in Montreal on a business trip . . . and mentioned how nasty everyone was!!! WHAT GIVES?
Do the French-Canadiens REALLY hate Americans? I try to explain to my American freinds who complain about the Frenchies in Quebec: how do you treat foreingners who dont speak English very well???
http://pwbts.com
By the way, another question, French Canadiens. I remember reading a book about the Quebec Hell’s Angels (believe it or not, there IS such a thing) by Yves Lavigne, and he said that there is a VERY high propensity of Quebecers for cold blooded murder.
Is there an big organized crime problem in Quebec? I know Montreal used to be a big gangster town. And I remember wrestler Dino Bravo getting gunned down by a cigarette smuggling gang. Any info?
http://pwbts.com
I have visited Quebec (the city) and Montreal on several occasions. I have never had a problem with rudeness or hostility and I do not speak French. Every person I know personally who has had problems in Quebec (the province) has been the abrupt sort who wants everyone to kowtow to the wealthy American tourist.
I’m sure that nice people can have bad experiences, but if the majority of one’s experiences are bad, I have to wonder about the visitor, not the hosts.
(I have similar stories about that other great bugaboo of American tourists, France. My folks visited in the late 1960’s. They came home with tales of really nice people interspersed with jerks. The jerks tended to be a small number of merchants or waiters, and were of about the same percentage that you would expect to find in the States. I visited several years later and had the same experiences. Most people were nice, a few were outstandingly nice, one or two salesclerks or bureaucrats were jerks.)
Tom~
Quebec separatism is about more than just language; language is just the front line of the battle.
Here’s my nutshell history, recently refreshed in my mind by a book called “Bastards and Boneheads: Canada’s Glorious Leaders Past and Present” by Will Ferguson (smokin’ book, by the way).
France set up New France, with a capital at Quebec City and a further significant settlement on the island of Montreal, and farming and cultivation in and around a large area between. In 1756, Britain declared war on France, and a major focus of the British war effort was on pushing the French out of North America and possessing the whole continent for themselves. To make a long and very interesting story short, the British under Wolfe and then Amherst succeeded: settlements in New France were razed (by American Rangers), Quebec City was destroyed, and Montreal surrendered without a fight at the end; les Canadiens weren’t expelled from Canada, but they were subjugated by the British crown.
That conquest and subjugation have always been part of both the popular and the academic history of the Quebecois, and is a ready fuel for Quebec nationalists who want to claim continuing oppression at the hands of anglo Canada. While it’s true, IMO, that such nationalists always overstate the degree to which Quebec has been oppressed by les maudits anglais, it’s also true that english-speaking Canadians perpetually understate the degree of real alienation felt by french-speaking Canadians that moves separatism in Quebec.
There are more direct examples for pequistes to use when arguing for independence, the most recent being the patriation of the Canadian constitution in 1982. While any constitution was supposed to be unanimously ratified by all ten provinces, Pierre Trudeau (the prime minister at the time) engineered the approval by the rest of the provinces while Rene Levesque, Quebec’s premier, was literally out of the room. Quebec has never ratified the Canadian constitution.
Language is largely a proxy battle for separatism, forming a symbolic rallying point for Quebecois, who feel that their culture is in danger of disappearing through apathy and assimilation. It’s becoming less effective as time goes on, because national bilingualism has increased the amount of french spoken outside of Quebec, and rather draconian laws and bureaucracies inside of Quebec have increased the amount of french learned and spoken there (when I left three years ago, the first choice of language to learn among immigrants was french over english).
Never attribute to an -ism anything more easily explained by common, human stupidity.