The good old Marquess of Queensberry supervised the formation of the basic rules of modern boxing.
Are there like rules for debating or discussing ideas among adults?
Here’s my favorite set for fighting among children.
FIGHT NICE is a way of being able to argue to deal with problems head on allow you to express angry feelings without blaming, criticizing or becoming defensive, things
that spoil good fights and turn them into not-so-good ones.
The opposite of FIGHT NICE - involves below-the-belt-tactics like: name-calling, sarcasm, dredging up old grievances -
these all turn attention FROM the problem at hand, accomplish nothing and lead to hard or hurt feelings.
Here are the high points:
-
Pin point the problem and stick to the real issue - No old grudges
-
No blaming or character assassination or name calling
No mimicking, crying or sarcasm - all of these are below-the-belt-tactics and need to be avoided.
Some people have special problems with “labeling” and “diagnosing” -you’re mad at your brother who has forgotten to take your book to the library so you say,
“You’re an idiot” - but saying how you feel would be much more to the point…“I’m really steamed that my book is still here” would be a better way to start that discussion.
-
Describe what you want to happen, not what you think the other person is doing wrong -
“I’d like to have a little more warning before you give my room away to visiting
aunts.” beats “You’re so inconsiderate, you never think of what I might be doing. I have winter clothes to sort all over the floor of my room and…” so forth. -
Express the problem in “I” terms, like:
I get mad when I see…
I feel angry when I hear…
I get furious when I’m told to… -
Avoid “never” and “always” these sentences usually say something like, “You never let me go to…” and are seldom true, and the other person either stops listening or starts
thinking of lists of exceptions to “never” and “always”.
Avoid sentences that begin with “you” - If you can’t express your feelings with “I” sentences–you’re too hopping mad to express your feelings correctly and FIGHT NICE, then you need to step back and say: “I need a little space, can we talk about this later?”
- Avoid yelling, raised voices, and rages - these things are pointless and people around you find these things disturbing, frightening or frequently laughable.
Might not be that bad for fighting among adults, either.
Robert’s Rules of Order
But they might be more formal than you have in mind.
Anyone else watch “Sports Night” on ABC? Great program. Really uses the backdrop of a live television broadcast better than another show or movie I’ve ever seen.
On to the question… On a recent episode, a character remarked that there was no “Marquess of Queensberry” and that no one knows why the English gent who formulated the rules called used the name.
Any truth to this?
I’ll be the pedantic one here, but it’s actually the Marquis of Queensbury.
In 1937, Isaac E. Lambert wrote a book called “Marquis of Queensbury rules for modern business, a discussion of unfair trade practices.”
I suppose Bill Gates doesn’t go to a neutral corner while in the process of buying someone out.
Marquis and marquess are generally given as variants of the same word. The Britannica identifies the boxing rules with John Sholto Douglas, ninth marquess of Queensberry.
As to the association of the name with the rules, the author was John Graham Chambers, but his sponsor was supposed to have been Queensberry. (Whether there is some arcane sports story behind and different from that presented by the Britannica, I have no idea.)
Tom~
Some rules for debate could include:
-
A disagreement is not a personal attack. Even deeply held views are subject to analysis by others.
-
Claims that violate our own experiences tend to need proof.
-
An argument is beaten when it is refuted, not simply when someone says that they dislike it or don’t believe it.
-
“For instance” isn’t proof.
4a) Neither is “in my opinion.”
4b) Neither, really, is “in my experience.” -
Calling someone an asshole, dick, bitch, etc. really doesn’t add any points to you.
5a) It probably subtracts points.
5b) The first person to get personal and nasty is the jerk. The respondant could maybe be bigger about it all, but it isn’t required of them. -
Go to a neutral corner when someone is pummelled. If they are really interested in fighting ignorance, that will include their own. All parties win when they emerge smarter from the debate–in this situation, there are no losers.
-
There are more than two sides to virtually every debate.
Bucky
Oh, well. We can always make more killbots.
I’ll be the pedantic one here, but it’s actually the Marquis of Queensbury.
Even when you quote right from the dictionary…
Oh, I’m gonna keep using these #%@&* codes 'til I get 'em right.
Bucky, Those rules aren’t bad.
I think the rules should be targeted to our own behavior and not the behavior of the other guy. I can’t control someone else’s behavior*, only my own.
- Well, omitting the gun, chair and the whip.
Pass the gun, chair and the whip.
This pedantic one will slink off to his neutral corner after rechecking his answer and discovering that the correct spelling is “Queensberry”. And “marquis” vs “marquess” is basically a judgment call.
However, one reference source says that the guy whose name appears on the rules was the 8th M of Q, but others say the 9th. Anyone have a Burke’s Peerage sitting aroung to see if there is anyone still alive with that title?
I’m afraid I left my Burke’s in my other suit.
[Marquis of Queensbury trivia]
He was the father of Lord Alfred Douglas, Oscar Wilde’s BF, who accused Wilde of “posing as a somdomite (sic)”, sparking the libel trial which led to Wilde’s downfall.
[/Marquis of Queensbury trivia]