Gotcha, Tarantula. The murderous attacks of September 11, 2001, were all the fault of America because we had it coming. Well, guess what? Then those who got attacked in response also had it coming, didn’t they?
Including, by Tarantula’s argument, the innocent ones.
I’d say, yes, they had it coming, but that doesn’t justify the american reaction, it only makes it understandable from a human stand point. I can understand hatred and “vengeance” but its not excusable.
In the same line as the fact, that the US had 911 coming, did not justify the terrorists. I can understand their hatred, but its not excusable.
Non-support of the war and the belief that America deserved 9/11 are not interchangable, so I’m mostly curious as to how widespread the latter sentiment is. He has every right to his opinion, it’s probably not uncommon - so IMO we should be paying attention. 
There is a difference between “deserve” and “not unexpected”.
The US has been a historically interventionist nation, for better or for worse. However, there is also a necessity for involvement in foreign affairs (to one degree or another, and the appropriate degree is debateable), and this is something that the Nativists and members of the America First party of our past neglected to realize.
That being said, isolationism simply does not suffice for a superpower. Global involvement is something that is intrinsic with our very being.
You missed my point, flonks. I was showing how ludicrous Tarantula’s silly argument is.
p.s. flonks: America did not have it coming.
Well that depends on your personal opinion, we could discuss that for another 2 years and nobody would change his stand point, right?
stand point /= Standpunt
Standpunt = point of view
I think this is down to semantics.
“Had it coming” as in “well deserved”…maybe, depending on how radical you are.
“had it coming” as in “should’ve expected sumtin like 9/11, as a backlash from US foreign policy since WWII”…hell yes.
Except our foreign policy wasn’t the biggest factor.
Terrorist attacks have been happening to a lot of nations whose foreign policies would seem unobjectionable. And what’s with the threats against Norway?
Could it be we should take them at their word, rather than making up excuses for them? They hate us because of who we are, not what we do.
Absolutely spot on. If we don’t make that distinction then we cannot hope to understand the depths of terrorist motivation and so run the risk of failing to come up with a full range of strategies to deal negate the threat.
The belief that if we kill enough active members we win is just stupid. So long as the conditions that create terrorists is not understood and addressed there will be more to take their place and sooner or later a dreadful attack will get through.
It so pisses me off that people cannot appreciate the difference between “understanding” and “condoning”.
I mentioned the semantic issue on page 1, elfje, but everyone ignored me. 
Thanks elfje, I wasn’t too sure about that “stand point” word when I typed it
I do agree with you.
About well deserved: you would think that the government had learned about what had happened and why it happened, but no. Afghanistan, Iraq and looking at the latest rhetorics I guess there will be some “ass-whuppin” against Iran soon
In the future there will be US military bases in every country to ensure that the politics is in line with US interests …
Tee I personally was unsurprised by 9/11. OK the actual magnitude of the attack and looking at those building fall surprised the fuck out of me but the fact that there was a major terrorist attack by Muslim Extremists on major US assets and cities was to be expected.
I wasn’t surprised when the IRA blew the shit out of Manchester either but I don’t think that the innocent civilians whose lives were torn apart deserved being put in the middle of that situation. The world a harsh’s place with many bastards in it. Innocent people get fucked all the time. It doesn’t surprise me it just depresses me.
I do think that some Americans need to realise that a lot of people around the world while feeling bad for the victims of 9/11 just roll their eyes when they see and hear a lot of Americans go on and on about how traumatised they are by 9/11 (I’m not talking about people who were actually involved BTW). Here’s one example to show what I mean. My company has a office in Belfast and I was talking to the receptionist up there and she said she was just back from a holiday in Florida. In a bar she had to console a stranger who they met who got very upset when 9/11 came up. She told the receptionist that she had no understanding of the fear that she felt and how her life was controlled by fear of another attack. Now the American was talking to a woman who lived in Belfast all her life and has dealt with bombings and shootings for 30 years. The receptionists was polite with the woman but came away with the opinion that the woman really needed to get a grip and cop onto herself.
Hopefully you get what I mean but maybe you won’t. I think Tarantula’s main point is something along the lines of “get over it already” and yes a lot of people do think that way IMO as they’ve lived with some level of that fear for all their lives.
Sorry about a rambling post but I’m hungry and very hungover
this just demonstrates your towering intellect and the fact that it intimidates the hell out of everyone
Yojimbo: shall i cook up a fry for you?
The belief that if we kill enough active members we win is just stupid. So long as the conditions that create terrorists is not understood and addressed there will be more to take their place and sooner or later a dreadful attack will get through.
And what are the underlying conditions? Tyranny is the biggest. And how do you end that? Only one way: war.
Well, that is what you want to think. People are against “liberty”, “freedom” etc… Do you really believe this?
I don’t think that the people protesting against the US in the streets in the middle east are against “liberty” and “freedom”. Whenever I talk to e.g. palestinian immigrants in France then it’s clear that most of them hate the US as you can hate a country. They do not have the same feeling about France or Europe. Don’t tell me that you have more “freedom” or “liberty” in the US and that this is the reason that Arabs hate the US.
US movies and culture is quite popular in arabic countries. Do you really think that they watch your movies if they hate your “freedom”?
I think you made a good point, yojimbo, and it’s relative to the OP to boot!
There are a lot of people who are afraid here in America. People who have never been in a fight, never seen a corpse, think meat comes in stryofoam packs and basically never venture outside their suburban cocoon. America has a mighty military, but its citizenry is a soft herd.
Hell, my stepmom in ARKANSAS, fer gawd’s sake, was afraid of getting attacked. Sheesh.
So, in that respect, the OP is right. There has been much hand-wringing and overreaction here. Given the circumstances, it’s understandable, but it’s not helping us move along and be better for it.
That’s one, western government actions and hypocricies are another, related of course, in some instances to the tyranny. Also as a contributing factor would be the skewed workings of the global economy and it’s contribution to poverty. No doubt there’s a whole bunch more.
And war is not the only answer, in some cases, like I think, Iraq, it will just make things worse in the long term.