So i’m in a pretty messed up situation at work, completely unfair pay scales for the exact same position.
Me: $9/hour 1 year experience, do my job well, get along with co-workers, always on time.
Other guy: $16/hour 15 years experience, does job well, never on time, smokes pot and drinks beer on the clock (which the owner knows about)
What is the best way to negotiate at least closing the gap between this baffling dichotomy in the pay scales?
If you like your job, and think the employer likes you, get another job offer. If they like you enough, they will renegotiate to keep you.
Otherwise, if you bring up your coworkers shortcomings, you may be seen as a troublemaker. That may get back to the coworker causing you even more problems.
If you complain about the disparity in pay, your boss will just tell you he made one deal with you, and another with him, and thats that. I am going to guess the 14+ years experience he has over you has just a BIT to do with the pay difference there, Sparky.
Just out of curiosity, and your boss may ask you this, how did you get this payroll information?
Why don’t you start toking up and drinking on the job? Seems that’s the key to $7 more per hour. Fifteen times the experience couldn’t be it.
Well, i have one year experience with the current company, 6 years experience in the field. He still has nearly 3 times the experience, but it really pisses me off knowing that little douche can get away with all that stuff and make almost twice what i do.
What is he getting away with? You said he does his job well, and the boss knows about his habits. And he’s probably not complaining about how much other employees make either.
You will need to think in terms of what is good for your boss, not what’s good for you neccessarily. Can you clearly and with examples paint a picture of how much of an asset you are? Can you justify why it’s in your boss’s best interests to give you an increase from a business standpoint, NOT because there is pay disparity? If you can do that, put it together and ask your boss for some time to discuss it. Discuss it, not demand it. And under no circumstances bring anything at all regarding your co-worker into it. That would be totally unprofessional, and if I were your boss that would torpedo your chances for a raise immediately.
You need to sell the raise. If your boss says no, then you need to start looking for another job, because it sounds like this is not the place for you. Also, don’t go in thinking your boss is going to bump you anywhere near what your co-worker makes. If I was making $9 an hour, I’d be happy with being bumped to $10 or $10.50.
My humble opinion, and as a previous owner of a small (30 emplyees) small business, there is only one proper/effective way to request consideration for a raise…respectfully present a case as to why you are worth it by communicating how you and your efforts have helped the company generate profit. Setting aside non/not-for-profit entities, the only reason a company hires anyone to do anything is because doing so translates into profit.
As to referencing what someone else does or does not do, don’t even think about going there.
Totally concur.
Several years ago I had a job where I realized I was producing THREE TIMES the paid contracts of my co-workers while getting paid a third less.
I made the mistake of printing out a list of my co-workers accomplishments alongside mine, foolishly thinking that by presenting the disparity to my boss would justify a raise for me.
Instead it created animosity as my co-workers discovered my tactic and it did not get me the raise I had projected. Instead I was forced to leave and look for a new job.
Before asking for a raise you need to look at it from your bosses point of view and determine how expendable you are.
Can he immediately hire another person for $9/hour that will perform the same as you? Or are your services a steal at $9/hour and getting a replacement would be impossible?
Leverage for a raise is inversely proportional to expendability.
There are some jobs where the number of years of seniority is a much more important factor in your salary than your job performance, as long as you are competant at all.
Is your job like that?
I strongly discourage this. If you want to leave, get another offer at a place you would really want to work, and then take it. Fishing for an outside offer only to use it as leverage leaves a bad taste in everyone’s mouth.
If you use this simply to get a raise, your current employer may decide he doesn’t want to be held hostage and will refuse to negotiate with terrorsts. He lets you leave, and you better never come back.
Otherwise, if he wants to keep you and you stay, then he’s going to be wondering when’s the next time you’re going to pull that shit, and the relationship goes downhill. That is, until he finds somebody who will do your job for $8 an hour and fires you.
Frankly I wonder why you want to continue working at a place like this. Life is too short. I don’t know what you do for your $9 an hour or what your qualifications are, but I’ll bet you could do better.
all of the above advice is fine and dandy, and perfectly applicable in normal circumstances.
However did any of you, including the OP read the news this morning that unemployment has jumped like 200% in the last few months?
There are no employers going to be giving raises or still fewer are going to be hiring.
Also, who cares if your cow-orker smokes pot/drinks/comes in late/fucks the boss’s wife on the job? It’s nunya, and does not affect how you do your job, other than having an unwarranted attitude to someone who has 2x the experience you do.
When I worked for a large hotel company the salaries were all over the place. The excuse was always, “he has more seniority.”
It was ridiculous that two people doing the same job could have more than $20,000 difference in pay. I handled incentives and it became very obvious when people making more than 100% of their goal would get LESS bonus than the people making only 85% of their goal.
I found my pay was lower than the previous person. They tried to pull the old, “Well she was here longer that’s why.” I pointed out “equal pay for equal work, fair is fair.”
FORTUNATELY, I had a boss that loved me. He went to bat for me and got me equal to the last person. Of course by then it should’ve been higher with cost of living, but I quit while I was ahead, as my boss really did try.
The reason the pay scales were all over is that people would come from NYC or DC or San Francisco and they would make much more than in Chicago. But when they transfered back the hotel company wouldn’t lower their pay.
Or they would switch positions. We actually had a payroll clerk making $47,000 a year. That is a $10/hr position. And that was back in 2003. This was because she was a manager at one point 10 years ago and got pregnant and took a position with less responsibility. Our Acctn’g Mgr was making $50,000. That’s ridiculous. A $3,000 difference between the boss and a clerk who does nothing but enter in numbers on a form in an accounting program? If the numbers were wrong she wouldn’t even correct them. “Not my job”, she’d say.
I never understood the seniority excuse. Equal pay for equal work. You get more vacation and other benefits for your seniority.
What I would do is look for another job. When you find one, go up and tell your boss, “look, it’s come to my attention that I’m being underpaid for my job. Can you please explain this?” And if the explination isn’t good, leave the company.
Jobs are too hard too find now-a-days. Wages and salaries have fallen a lot, in least in my field. I’m shocked by the salaries offered, so now is not a good time to negotiate.
If you don’t like your job, don’t argue, don’t threaten, just look. If you find another job, “good for you.” If not, you’ll appreciate the one you got more.
True, but I’ve also read that company’s profits and productivity are up, as well. Not every company is in dire straits, nor every industry, nor every area of the country. You have to read the situation at your employer correctly, certainly. But again, it comes down to whether you can show yourself to be a valuable asset that your boss wants to keep, and if he wants to keep you at a rate you can accept. Or at least can accept until you find another job. If you are professional about it (and your boss is a professional, too), you can ask for a raise and be turned down and still have good rapport with your boss and keep your job. I see this, as I said, as a conversation about what you - the employee - bring to the table and respectfully inquiring if an accomodation can be made. If not, well, thank you for your time and now let’s get back to work.
Agree that what the other employee does is NOYB.
You may not see the value of 15 years’ experience, but clearly your boss has a different view. I do not know the individual with whom you are comparing yourself, but it is worth considering this carefully, from your boss’s point of view.
I get paid more than other folk I work with. Some of those folk work a lot harder than I do each day. Some don’t.
I get paid a lot more, because I have long experience. When things go wrong, I don’t have to spend hours of research, or sit round a table brainstorming a solution. I can suggest where to look for a solution immediately. Of course, I don’t know everything, and some of my colleagues have better knowledge of particular areas. However, my wide experience stops time wasting, and gets our team on the way to a solution faster.
The young hard-working kids don’t resent my pay (although they would like some of it) because they know that I know.
As the Master Kong said, “He who knows, and who knows that he knows, is a wise man. Follow him.”
He also said, “He who does not know, and does not know that he does not know, he is a fool. Scorn him.” Is there something that you do not know, and your colleague does?
I had a very young (first professional gig for her) employee come to me and ask for a 20% increase. Her justification was “I will stay longer and be a more loyal employee if I make more money.”
I asked her to present a plan for how she had and was planning to continue adding value to my department that would justify me paying her 20% more than the other copywriter I had on staff.
“I’ll stay longer than her!”
No, you’ll need to do 20% more work.
Or bring in 20% more profit.
Or something.
Another point of consideration that front-line employees rarely think about: There is a budget process. Usually, most companies have a mechanism in place for performance review and salary increases. The time to ask is NOT mid way through the year when the budget dollars have already been allocated and your last salary increase was only 6 months ago.
IF you think you can justify asking for a raise, and you have documented corroborative evidence that demonstrates how much more value you bring to the team than your more experienced coworker, then do it at annual performance review time, or *prior *to the budgeting process for the next year.
I ended up telling my employee that, even if she took on 20% more of the workload and turned our department into a profit center (it was a cost center, not a profit generating department), I still, as mandated by company policy, could offer no more than 5-7% increase at the time of her annual performance review.
She burst into tears in my office.
Eventually, she took up some training offered by the IT department and learned to become a programmer and went to work with IT. And got her 20% increase by learning new skills and changing positions.
I agree with not using others salaries when comparing it to your own. You can use that for your own knowledge (figuring they might fold since it’s within the range of the position).
I’ve successfully asked for raises 4 times, but have always tied them to promotions, which always makes it easier to justify the raise. Or if you are doing something completely different then what you were hired to do ask for a title change and a raise. It has to be realistic though – not “oh i’m working on difficult projects” but, “I was brought in to document this stuff, and now I’m leading the teams and delegating people to document and implement”.
I know its a different world, but this is really the only way to get a substantial raise in academia. And yes, if you pull it, you had better be prepared for them to say “good luck in your next job!”.
Nonsense.
I went from $15.50 to $22.00 hourly in a span of two and a half years. First raise was $1.50, second was $2.00, third was $3.00. Every boss/employee relationship is unique. It is never solely about experience, or solely about time spent with the company, or solely about how much the raise will be in terms of percentage of your current rate.
If it helps you out, keep in mind that your job is a BUSINESS relationship between you and your employer. If your boss is a BUSINESSMAN, then he will respect the following train of thought:
“Boss, the only asset I have available to me is my time. I need to invest my time as wisely as possible in order to maximize my financial return. I’m currently getting poor performance from my only asset. I can only do two things, attempt to improve the performance of my only asset, or relocate the asset. I’m making $9.00 an hour. I’d like to see $15.00 an hour. Will you do that?”
My $2.00 raise went like this:
ME: “I need to make more money.”
BOSS: “I think you’re probably due for about $1.00/hr increase.”
ME: “You know, that’s not half of what I need. If that’s all you can do, never mind.”
My next paycheck had a $2.00 raise in it.
Never be afraid to aim higher than you intend to land. Also, don’t be afraid to let your employer know you’re unhappy with your current pay rate and will do whatever it takes to improve it. Then be willing to quit if need be.
Of course, the above is meaningless if your boss is a pig headed fool with no financial sense. Some people are only in it to benefit themselves, damned be everybody else.
Nonsense how? I don’t presume the OP can’t go from $9 to $15 in the same amount of time. Or less, for that matter. I’m talking about this raise, today. I’m not saying he should get $10.50 and never again ask for a raise. There’s nothing wrong with being confident and asking for an assertive amount (I’ve done the same many times, but I showed I was worth it and I got it). But considering the salary range, I think $10.50 is a realistic bump. Going straight to $13 or $15 is not a realistic expectation, IMO.