Inspired by the “Britishisms” thread, of course. There’s a film I love called Riff Raff. Unfortunately, I don’t own it on DVD or Blu-Ray, because I have not yet found an edition with subtitles. Not even digital subtitles, and definitely not the built-in yellow “foreign film” subtitles I saw in the American release, and that were on the VHS, when I had one.
Seriously: the trailer called it out: “We’ve included subtitles because, no offense, but you Yanks won’t understand a bloody word otherwise.” They were right, and mind you, that was hardly the first British film I’d seen. Except that in those other films, the characters were all talking Cockney, or Glaswegian or whatever, and after a while, I would get in the groove. But in Riff-Raff, there was Cockney and Glaswegian, plus Welsh, Irish, Scouse, Suffolk, Jamaican and whatever else. (It’s jarring when an RP accent is briefly heard.) So the subtitles were necessary for Americans.
But I’m wondering, would that be a bit confusing for a British person as well? Would someone who’s spent their whole life in Ipswich be baffled by a Welsh accent? There’s a variety of accents in the US, but some people do have trouble, like a Southerner and a New Yorker not understanding each other. So maybe not; just curious.
(**Riff-Raff is also where I first heard of Billy Connolly. Robert Carlyle’s character is hitching a ride, holding a sign that says “I Knew Billy Connolly.” I didn’t get it; my friend said “Means he’s hitching to Scotland. Billy Connolly is like the Robin Williams or Steve Martin of Scotland.”)
I was born in North London (or ‘Norf Lunnon’ using a local accent!)
I now speak in a ‘standard’ English accent (or ‘educated’.)
A while back I was hosting two friends. One came from Scotland (there are a few Scottish accents), the other from Newcastle (Geordie accent.)
They both spoke English fluently - but I need to occasionally ‘translate’ for them!
Ipswichian (if that’s a word) here. For very strong regional accents I do definitely have to concentrate and, er, recalibrate (??) my listening on occasion. It depends what you’re used to but I would say if you hear a strong accent out of the expected setting then it can throw you off for a second. But if I heard strong Glaswegian accents in Glasgow then that’s not going to take me by surprise, funnily enough, so I should understand them pretty much immediately. Can’t say I’ve ever had a problem with any Welsh accent, in person or watching on TV/film. Generally speaking I wouldn’t need subtitles, and not for strong US accents either.
It all depends. It’s perfectly possible for someone to have a recognisable regional accent while speaking, in effect, RP articulately (though even now that causes some listeners to the ‘posher’ BBC radio stations to have conniptions).
What can be problematic for outsiders is when a lot of dialect words and common phrases/sayings are being exchanged between people from the same part of the world, and at speed. I was once in a pub in a small village in deepest Suffolk, and couldn’t make out a word, but probably I wasn’t meant to.
Not to hijack this overmuch, but I’ve always kind of wondered what the modern-day US equivalent would be of the general British read on James Bond circa 1962: the guy’s cover identity is ‘suave and classy businessman in an expensive suit,’ and his actual status is ‘Royal Navy commander working On Her Majesty’s Secret Service,’ and the default reaction to Sean Connery’s thick Scottish accent would’ve been to think of him as — what, over there, back then?
Working-class Noo Yawker from Lawn Guyland? Good ol’ boy from Alabama, y’all? MinnesOta farmer, yah, you betcha? What’s the closest analogue?
Incidentally, you might want to know about the term “code-switching”. This is where a person has gotten used to speaking with people from two different communities (using the term “community” in a vague snese). These two communities might speak different dialects or different languages or allow different subjects to be talked about. It’s possible to do this between different people that one talks to or between sentences in what one says or within sentences. People are capable of unconsciously doing much more complicated things with language than you might expect:
I wouldn’t say Connery (in Bond) had a thick Scottish accent, it’s more ‘posh’ Edinburgh/Scottish really. Definitely nothing like these ones… (warning, NSFW due to bad language, drug use, etc etc etc): -
I’d say this is probably posh Edinburgh too, although any Scottish dopers would be far more informed on the subject than I… (some VERY mild bad language): -
I was once in a pub in a small village in deepest Suffolk, and couldn’t make out a word, but probably I wasn’t meant to.
Another Ipswichian here. What my parents called ‘Broad Suffolk’ is not a very pronounced accent and there are few dialect words. I wouldn’t have thought anyone would find it incomprehensible. Would you like to tell us which village you were in?
It certainly isn’t like Wales, where the locals switch to Welsh when a non-Welshman walks in. Not very nice behaviour, in my view.
Personally the only accent I have trouble with is Geordie, though Glaswegian was a bit of a puzzle when I first encountered it.
BTW, for the first time I had to log in before I could see the Reply button. Is this a new thing?
As far as I can remember, none of my fellow Americans really acknowledged Connery’s Scottish accent. James Bond just has to be suave, cool, debonair, break out the cool weaponry and cars, and pick up gorgeous chicks that instantly betray international secrets to him.
No, I’m with you there; I like to think I’ve got a pretty good read on what Americans thought of Connery’s accent, and I think you’re right. But I never had any idea what Brits thought of his accent right when the first movie hit theaters.
This is a common but kind of nasty stereotype, one of the tools used to make people feel that they shouldn’t be speaking Welsh in public. Do you have any evidence for it? People certainly switch from English to Welsh, but usually for reasons that have more to do with who they’re actually talking to than their assumptions about random people who just came in.
I’m married to someone who really dislikes speaking Welsh when we’re out and about because he’s afraid people will think he’s made that choice to exclude them, which isn’t the case.
Not being able to understand other dialects in your own country happens in the US too. I’m from Cleveland, Ohio (so I speak “regular” ) and I have a friend who’s a Mobile, Alamaba and I have to listen REAL close when he talks.
At least as reported the authors seem to miss the obvious explanation - the Home Counties are an absolute melting pot, and have far higher rates of movement than the regions. If one is from London and asked to try to detect (by sound alone) if someone purportedly from London is faking their accent and they don’t sound quite right - are they faking it or have they lived in London all their life but their parents are from Bangladesh or Ireland or Jamaica? If they are purportedly from Essex but they don’t sound quite right are they faking their accent or did they move to Essex after growing up in Willesden? The same hurdle doesn’t exist to nearly the same degree for the regions.
) and I have a friend who’s a Mobile, Alamaba and I have to listen REAL close when he talks.