So in getting ready for Black Panther, I have been rewatching all of the MCU movies in order with my girlfriend. She is seeing them all for the first time and is really enjoying them. Last night we watched Captain America Civil War and afterwards, my girlfriend said that she hates Captain America now because he didn’t let Tony Stark avenge his parents death.
As we know, it turns out that Bucky Barnes/Winter Soldier/Cap’s Best Buddy was responsible for killing Tony Stark’s parents in 1991 while he was brainwashed. We discover in the end of the film that Cap not only stopped Tony from getting his revenge, but that he also knew that Bucky did it and never said anything.
So what do you guys think? Should Cap have let Bucky go or should he have protected him? Also, how did Cap find out that Bucky was the killer? Is that ever revealed, or is it just implied that sometime throughout the movie timeline he just found out?
It was implied during “The Winter Soldier” when they confront ComputerZola. When he reveals Hydra has been working in secret and committing covert assassinations, he briefly shows the headline showing the Starks died. So he knows the Starks were assassinated and he knows Bucky is Hydra’s top assassin. Easy to put together.
I was going to post what enalzi did. And more specifically, right after Zola showed them the headline, he put up a picture of Bucky holding a sniper rifle. So yeah, unless Cap’s an idiot, he knows it’s almost certain that Bucky was the killer.
Or atleast that is exactly what Zola wanted Cap to think… but there is a statement/conversation between Stark and Cap of “did you know?” that cemented it.
Thanks for that answer. I had forgotten about the Zola reveal in Winter Soldier movie.
So what do you guys think? Was Tony in the right to avenge his parents considering Bucky technically was brainwashed into killing?
Near as I can tell, it’s as if I were to grab your wrist and swing you into someone else: yes, it’d technically be your head that then collides with the other guy’s head to make a remarkably coconut-like sound; but how is that relevant? I figure the fault would be all mine, and none of yours, in that case.
A crime was committed, and someone is to blame; Bucky was — the location.
Is he right to flat out murder Bucky? No way at all. Is he right to take Bucky to the Raft and imprison him, using all force necessary to do so, up to and including lethal force if that’s the only way to subdue Bucky? I’d say yes.
Outside of out-and-out war,I don’t believe Cap approves of any murder/death of a human regardless of the circumstances. I think it would be more of a betrayal of character for him to approve Iron Man killing someone in lukewarm blood.
But Tony doesn’t know any of that. Sure, Cap has told him that Bucky was mind controlled & not responsible, but I don’t see where Tony has to believe him. At best, if Cap really believes that, he should bring in Bucky himself and have him tried in a court of law, using the “brainwashed by Hydra” theory as his defense.
I tend to agree. Bucky was just the tool for the murder. Now I totally see where Tony would be pissed, especially in the heat of the moment, having just found out that his parents were actually murdered instead of accidentally dying, like he originally thought. Plus having seen it on video just then and having the person who committed the act right there in front of him - I can see why Tony did what he did.
Do you think Tony was out for blood at that point? Did he want to kill Bucky or was he just wanting to beat him down so he could then be arrested and put in the Raft?
Yeah. Bucky murdered people in the United States. There’s zero question about that. Bucky should face a trial and let the justice system decide if “I was brainwashed by Hydra” is an adequate defense. Instead, Bucky gets judged and exonerated by his best friend, Captain America. Well, yay America I guess – the American system still works: You just need to know the right people.
Ok, yeah, I just rewatched the scene (having a job where you can watch Netflix and claim you’re doing network tests is awesome), and you’re right. He started out by punching Steve, then tried to shoot Bucky in the face with a repulsor, then a few wrist missiles, and generally was trying to kill him the whole time.
I still maintain Cap should have brought him in for trial, and not just let him go to Wakanda.
Well, look, when Bucky was actually locked up, Cap didn’t seem to even consider trying to to break him out — even though, if the end of the movie is any indication, he can do that sort of thing pretty easily; and even though, given that Bucky pretty much broke himself out on Zemo’s say-so without any help from Cap, that breakout presumably would’ve gone even easier.
But the point is, when Bucky was facing trial, Cap seemed cool with it; and, when folks tried to kill Bucky without a trial, Cap played steroid-fueled bodyguard.
It made sense to me that Cap would stand by Bucky. Bucky was his lifelong friend and was basically mentally assaulted and not of his right mind. In a sense he was a victim of Hydra too. Stark is impulsive and angry and has no connection to Bucky so it makes sense none of that matters to him.
I will say my issue with Civil War is I felt on the issue of the accords Steve and Tony are on the wrong sides. They set the movie up as best they could but Steve’s “I know best” attitude just didn’t feel right to me.
It fits very well with his having discovered that SHIELD, an institution he completely trusted, and deep levels of the American government had been infested by Hydra.
Yeah, I can agree with this. At least it seemed odd to me that Tony Stark would have an epiphany and decide to submit his powers to the control of others (after his initial epiphany that making weapons and placing them under the control of others was a bad thing).
I hadn’t thought about Steve’s position, but you’re right, Steve is “lawful good” and Tony is “chaotic good”. They ought to have been on opposite sides, but not the sides shown in the movie. Maybe. Is the movie better or worse for this apparent contradiction?
Edited: cmkeller’s point is good. Steve flips because he sees Hydra infiltrate SHIELD. Tony flips because of a personal interaction.
In fairness, Steve is the guy who lied when applying to the military after they’d already told him ‘no’ — and who, upon getting in, promptly ignored his orders because it sure looked like a good day to go parachute behind enemy lines.
As for Tony, my pet theory is that he wants to always be able to say “hey, you can’t blame ME; I answer to THAT guy! Take it up with HIM! I was recently in a situation where someone wagged a finger and said This Is All My Fault — and lemme tell you something: this, here? This is NOT All My Fault! I got that in writing!”
Absolutely, on both counts. Remember, the whole Ultron/Sokovia affair was Tony’s fault, and nobody else’s. He doesn’t want to be able to do that kind of thing anymore.
