I hope this thread isn’t too old (it’s the most recent I found), because besides the big issues about predeterminsm/ free will which were the supposed topics of this movie, one major question that remained unanswered for me was asked by Andertons wife:
Why should somebody frame you?
The guy (Crow) admits that he didn’t really kidnap Anderton’s son, it was all fake. He refuses to name the guy who hired him, and kills himself, but evidence points to boss Lamar. This is later confirmed when Witwer from the DOJ finds the crime suspicious, digs deeper into Livelys death and confronts Lamar (while carrying the idiot ball by not telling anybody and going alone).
It’s also been partly answered that Lamars original plan was to leak some information to Anderton that would lead him to Crow, but the precogs seeing the murder (maybe because of Lamars intent) early set a loop in motion where the precog prophecy leads Anderton to Crow.
But okay, I will accept that Lamar originally planned to lure Anderton to Crow in a normal, non-psychic way. I also see that Anderton is an ideal victim for frame-up: his dead son is his berserk button, and his drug habit makes it plausible for the public.
The question is, for what purpose does Lamar want to frame Anderton? It’s not like Livelys murder to prevent guardianship of the precogs.
It’s not to hush up the murder of Lively - Anderton never bothered to look at that before, because he believed the system to be perfect. If anything, Witwer would be the target, since he is investigating everything before Precrime goes nationwide. (But Witwer doesn’t have obvious Berserk Buttons for Lamar to exploit).
So what was the reason for the whole charade? (If I understand wiki correctly, the original book had a corrupt General doing the frame -up to discredit Precrime and Anderton and gain control of it - that sounds like making some sense).
The other problem is, that like many “Ethical riddles”, it’s cooked: we are told from the beginning that the precogs can see the future and are always accurate; it’s part of the whole debate about free will and determinism.
However, they don’t explain how they proved that, right? When Anderton visits the crazy old women in her garden house who invented the precogs (although trying to heal them), she says they finally found out that the children dreamed at night about murders that hadn’t happened yet.
How many murders can people with a conscience let happen in order to prove the precognitions correct? Conversely, how many can you prevent while maintaining that the accuracy is proven? (And they cut off their own explanation at validating the precogs with other predictions, like with a Randi challenge, by saying that they can only see murder, not smaller crimes - although Agatha in the mall with Anderton does smaller stuff).
So how could this be proven?
Related to this, if “violent crime” that has gone down is only murder, but not mugging, robbing, rape, grievous bodily harm etc., then why do the ads claim and people act as if suddenly life is so wonderful crime free?
For that matter, while metaphysical/ esoterically, it makes sense to say that murder disrupts the fabric so much that it can be foreseen, on a practical level it doesn’t make sense. If the husband from the opening struck with the knife (instead of turning aside and stabbing the pillow in the last second - unlikely, but possible!), but didn’t hit the heart, and caused serious injuries, so that the woman was hospitalized for life - then the precogs wouldn’t have seen it? What about if the woman died two days later? Two weeks? In real life, somebody who’s in a “passion” or murderous rage, it can be an extremely small variation whether the assailant “only” seriously injures the victim or actually kills the victim (sometimes the special body properties of the victim ensure that they die much easier or harder than ordinary people). If the precogs feel the intent as distortion of the fabric, and not the result, they would see a tot more than murders; if the precogs see the actual death itself as the distortion of fabric, they would miss a lot of passion murders where the victim dies later.
Or the fight between Anderton and Crow (and later Anderton and Lamar) - two people are struggling with a gun, both with intent, the gun goes off, neither knows for sure who pressed the trigger. How can the precogs point one as the murder?
In the older thread, indirect murder for example with a car was adressed, or doing things in a dark, nondescript alley.
Generally, looking at the fuzzy shifting images on the computer Anderton looks at, it kills my disbelief that such a small force - since Anderton is the Chief of the whole PreCrime unit, right? - can prevent all murders, figuring out where a murder happens. (And the balls are not helpful, giving one name, no address, no birthdate, no SSN, no distinguishing signs for all the other people with the same name in a big city.)
Esp. since pre-planned murders I can see as diminshing because criminals take it elsewhere as the news spread; that is, people stop planning because they know they will be caught.
But crimes of passion happen everytime people can’t control themselves, yet a police force as small and with only three precogs can prevent all of them in a big city? Nope, unbelievable.