I’d like to keep this out of the Pit, so I’ll make this post a lot more civil than I originally planned. My question is this:
What is it that happens to you when you have a kid?
To clarify: Recently, a schoolkid (in the Swedish equivalent of high school) was suspended for two weeks or so because he was an asshole. He’d been harassing this girl, calling here a whore, stuff like that. For once in mankind’s history, the headmaster actually does something about it, at least tries to send a signal that this is not acceptable, and suspends the guy.
The parents, far from exploding of anger at their little fucked up brat of a kid, sues the school. This is so far from me that I can’t even begin to comprehend it. I don’t have any children, but I like to think that if a kid of mine did something like that, I’d let him understand in no uncertain terms that he did wrong and that he’s an asshole. I definitely wouldn’t defend him.
This is far from the only example. Parents, can you explain this to me? Does something happen to you when you have a kid that suspends your reason and causes you to value defending your kid above all other concerns, no matter what they do?
The sums you can get from a case like this in Sweden are miniscule compared to what you can get in America. I really doubt they’re doing it for the money.
I could perhaps find a link, but it’d be in Swedish and so of little use to you (I assume).
Short version: the kid and his parents are arseholes. If I were his dad, I’d be kicking his arse, not sueing the school.
However, I love my son, and if in a couple decades time (he’s only six now), he came to me and said “Dad, I killed a guy last night. The cops are chasing me. I’m scared.”, I’d have a moral battle, but it wouldn’t be a tough one. I’d protect him in a heartbeat.
Ah! Now we’re getting somewhere. So you would protect him even if he admitted it was his fault? We aren’t talking about “I was drunk and he was drunk and he came at me with a knife and I took it from him and the next thing I remember he was lying there bleeding” here, we’re talking an intended murder. He regrets it now, certainly, but he did do it and he knew what he was doing. Would you protect him? Why?
This shit wouldn’t fly with my Dad nor would I let my son get away with this BS.
Intresting story about MY Dad:
One day I was walking home from school (I was abou 9 or 10) I spotted some OLDER kids playing basket ball across the way. Well anyway me being the smart ass that I was (am) I started yelling out to them that they’re all a bunch of sissies and they play basket ball like a bunch of girls.
I did this with the full intent KNOWING they would chase me. However I also knew that I’d be able to make it home before they caught me.
True to form they did indeed chase me and I true to form made it home before they caught me except THIS time my Dad had come home from work early. He see’s me come barreling in the door all out of breath. The following is the conversation that took place after that:
Dad: “Whats going on? Why are you all out of breath?”
Bear in mind though, I wouldn’t be patting him on the back and saying, “attaboy!”. I’d be capable of virtually disowning him in the context of a normal family relationship, but handing him over to the police would be a completely different matter.
I think it’s instinct to try to protect your offspring. After all, parents who DON’T have this instinct are far more likely to lose children than those who do. Hell, I dislike most all kids, but when my daughter was born I fell in love with her after a couple of days of nursing her. There’s no logical explanation for it.
However, I think that good parents will recognize when their children have done wrong, and will correct them. Correcting one’s child is at best somewhat bothersome, and it can actually be quite heartbreaking in some cases. It’s necessary, though, in order to raise a child to be a good human being. Some people do not wish to spend the time or effort to correct their children. One must be consistent and vigilant when raising a child. And as we all know, nobody needs a license to become a parent, nobody needs to demonstrate any knowledge or even common sense. In fact, it takes some knowledge, common sense, and planning ahead to NOT become pregnant! It just takes a couple of minutes of activity to impregnate/become pregnant in many cases.
If my daughter did something truly awful, like murder someone in cold blood, I don’t know how I’d react, exactly. I would certainly help her find a good lawyer. I don’t know if I’d encourage her to turn herself in. I have always tried to force her to face the consequences of her own actions within reason…when she chose to take ROTC instead of PE in high school, for instance, I insisted that she take care of her own uniform, and she was the one who had to worry about getting it to the dry cleaners in time (before she got her license she was responsible for gathering up her uniform and making sure that Mom or Dad had plenty of time to get it to the cleaners, we were NOT going to nag her about where it was and we certainly wouldn’t go in her room and pick it up off the floor to make a quick run to the cleaners). She has been feeding the cats since she was in grade school, and she’s been changing their catbox since she was in high school. I really do not think that my daughter would ever do something really awful. If she killed someone, I’m sure that it would be because she or someone else was in mortal danger, and killing someone was the only choice she had.
I’ll add this: many parents are perfectly willing to discipline their children, but are fiercely protective – not only of their children, but of their prerogative. They will dig in their heels, cajole, threaten, lie, and file lawsuits to prevent someone else from punishing their children, but left to their own devices, they will punish their children more severely than anyone else might intend to.
One more thing to consider - the parents are hearing this from the kids perspective, while you are hearing it from the school. Kids sometimes behave differently in school than at home. My kids were always perfect little angels at other people’s houses (from the testimony of the parents) while obnoxious at home. Did the school ever report this problem to the parents before the suspension, or was it a surprise?
I guess we’re the exception to the rule. Our kids know that we support the teachers/school rules and if they break them, they not only pay the consequence at school, but more importantly, punishment is doubled at home. IMHO, one of the major problems facing teachers and school adminstrators today is their inability to discipline a child who needs it without worrying about little Johnny’s parents bringing a lawsuit against the school. There hands are effectively tied, yet they are still accountable for instruction when most of the class period is spent begging little Johnny to sit down and shut up, much less pay attention. :::off my soapbox:::
Rules are rules, if you don’t like them, actively work in a respectable way to change them, but while they are in place you must obey them. Period. End of discussion in our home. Oddly, with these rules in place, none of our children have been a discipline problem. Works for us.
Hmm. My mom always signed the permission slips to let them paddle me (this was Texas in the mid-to-late 80s), since she figured if I did something that they felt warranted a few whacks then I deserved what I got. The same always applied to if I got picked up by the police; oh, if I did something and needed a lawyer she’d find one, but she wouldn’t stop them from taking me. I was a good kid overall, so this wasn’t really a concern, but I knew the policy, as it were.
So if I’d gotten suspended or something under circumstances where it was clear I was in the wrong, I’d have been in Deep Trouble at home. She most certainly would not have gone to the school to argue unless it was clearly an unjust punishment. And I wouldn’t have enjoyed my time off school, either.
I think we need a few more parents with this attitude. Don’t get me wrong, she loves me like crazy, but if she couldn’t get through to me but somebody else could she’d have let them, within reason.
Part of the problem specifically in Sweden is imho that kids are given almost no discipline (granted, I went to school with Irish catholic nuns). I almost never see parents firmly discipline their kids for missbehaving, but rather they bribe them, “Sven, stop crying and I will buy you some sweeties”. Teachers are effectivly hand-tied, they get into trouble for making kids turn off their cellphones in class. I have a vague theory about it being guilt based, this thing of “I only get to see them in the evenings, and I don’t want to be giving out to them”, but it drives nuts! I had a two year old slapping me at the weekend, and when I told them not to their fecking mam encouraged them to continue!
Yes, Iteki, that is certainly a problem. I’m not one to favour whips and chains when it comes to disciplining a child, but these days, there’s nothing.