Now’s your chance to chime in & tell us all the wonderful things President Donald will do for the country…
I’m a Republican.
I really want to see Hillary lose.
I really don’t want to see Trump win.
If Trump wins, it’s a more terrible outcome than the terrible outcome of Clinton winning.
Off the fence-If Trump wins, is it a net plus or minus to you?
Gotten quite a few Republican responses.
What’s your response?
PJ O’Rourke:
“I am endorsing Hillary, and all her lies and all her empty promises, It’s the second-worst thing that can happen to this country, but she’s way behind in second place. She’s wrong about absolutely everything, but she’s wrong within normal parameters.”
To be ruthlessly fair, that isn’t a fair question. I didn’t want GeeDubya to win, but at the time, saw it as center right v. center left, nothing to get all worked up about. The way he got picked rankled, but that’s another thing. No way did I have a clue how bad it was going to be.
I think Trump winning would be a net plus but only if measured a particular way. It’s not because of any particular policy position or anything though. I think Trump will be ineffective, so whatever BS he pushes will likely not be enacted and will not have far reaching consequence. I think Clinton will actually be effective so what she pushes has a good chance to come to pass.
I think the way most people are comparing the two misses this reality - it’s not just about who’s policy or other positions are better or worse, it also matters who will be more effective in enacting their agenda.
So evaluating the two based on expected return and not simply based on the merits of their positions, and given that I want the federal government to do as little as possible, it tips the scales for Trump. Trump is still a dumbass though.
No, but it doesn’t matter because he’s going to get his hairpiece handed to him in a landslide. His nomination alone put the GOP in a real bad spot. GWB is probably right about being the last ever elected Republican president.
So effectively, Trump will further your goal of shrinking the federal government, and if this is accomplished through inept destruction by a dumb-ass, that’s not a big problem for you.
OK then.
Where have I heard this argument before about his ineffectiveness?
Oh yes, now I remember: Back when all you Republicans gave it as the reason why we have no reason to worry about Trump ever getting anywhere near the Republican Primaries, let alone becoming the Republican candidate for President.
So forgive me if your words about his so-called ineffectiveness ring just a little hollow to me-I have no doubt he is just as capable of fucking up my country as he is your Party.
Nope.
I’m not a Republican. Even early in the primaries I didn’t discount his potential for the nomination. But let me get this straight - do you think Trump could be an effective president where effectiveness is measured by the ability to enact one’s agenda?
Do you think Trump could be as effective as Clinton?
All in all, I fully expect Clinton to win in a landslide, but your question was whether or not a hypothetical Trump win would be a net plus or minus. It’s like you ask the question hoping for an opportunity to bash the response.
I think Trump is effective in shaping deals where others take the brunt and he comes out ahead. He will be effective in advancing the Trump Brand, while making sure that any costs are borne by others. When you talk about Trump’s “effectiveness”, it would be wise to know what his goals are. This country could go to hell in a hand basket, but if Trump makes the right deals, he is effective.
Net versus what? Obama? or Hillary? Which are pretty similar from where I’m sitting, now that I think about it.
I really don’t know how to answer that. I guess the closest I can come is that no matter who wins, it’s a net minus in my estimation. There is no good choice, or even an acceptable one. Trump, if he wins, will probably not continue to steer the country as far to the left as Obama has, and Hillary will probably continue to do. Trump might even appoint some moderate to conservative justices to SCOTUS, but he will probably mess up lots of other stuff, including international relationships. And I certainly don’t trust him, but then, I trust Hillary even less. At this point, I’m pretty much hoping there will be a good candidate in 2020.
Trump is bad, but Clinton is approximately 3 times worse.
I HATE the fact that circumstances force me to vote for Trump. Why in blazes didn’t Biden run?
What a stupid thing to say.
Heck no. It will be a huge black eye to the party and to America. I’m still nominally a Republican, but I couldn’t stand the Tea Party extremists and racism over the last few years and voted for Obama for his second term. If the party ever throws off the chokehold of the radical right and comes back to the center, I might return to the party, but I have a feeling I’m in for a long wait
Trump will have the power of the pardon and won’t be afraid to use it on behalf of his cronies. I predict that the wall will be built by Trump-affiliated organizations: the profiteering will be enormous. We will also learn what ineffectiveness in foreign policy/military action entails.
I am a registered Republican but have not always voted for the GOP candidate. I am fiscally conservative and socially moderate.
As is usual in an election, the vote is the choice between the lesser of two evils. Sometimes I vote for a good candidate, and sometimes I vote against a poor candidate. My vote for Trump is a vote against Clinton. If Trump wins, and I think he will, it is a win because Clinton won’t be in the office. I think Trump is running a masterful race that, in years to come, will be studied by both parties as they wonder, How in blazes did Trump win?