I’m re-reading the Talisman in preperation for the new King/Straub book, “The Dark House.” I think I’ve discovered a discrepency in the mechanics of “flipping” and wanted to see if anyone else has noted the same.
In the beginning of the book, good ol’ Sloat flips into the Territories where Jack/Wolf have just met in Wolf’s pasture. Basically, he just appears, kinda ripping into the fabric of space/time right in the middle of the pasture and proceeds to try to zap them with his lightening rod. He performs a similar feat near the end of the book in the Bad Wolf training camp.
However, between the two appearances, when Sloat is approaching his son’s college, he “flips” back into the Territories, this time into his Twinner’s body. The narrative then explains that since he has a Twinner, whenever he flips he ends up in the Twinner’s body, wherever that may be. This appears to be a little inconsisent with his previous and superceding appearences. Am I understanding this right?
P.S. I know it’s only fiction, but I couldn’t help asking. Seems to be a bit of an oversight…
It’s been sometime since I re-read the Talisman but…
IIRC, it was Morgan’s Twinner that attacked Jack and Wolf, you’ll have to pay particular attention to the descriptions of Morgan. (The tearing up of Space/Time you mentioned seems to only occur when it involves twinners, a similar thing occurs in the Black House) Though they’re names are the same Morgan of Orris is thin and lean, while Morgan Sloat is pudgy (I may be wrong).
In the end I remember specifically that King/Struab described how MO/MS had to move in tandem to keep up their attack outside the Alhambra (or was it the Agincourt) when Jack has the Talisman. (That was the key to Jack’s victory once he figured out how they were doing it)
I just read Black House by the way. Good read, and a must read if you’re reading the Dark Tower series.
I thought when they cross they always “become” the “Twinner” - i.e. the two will exist in one body. Can they each be present in one world in seperate bodies?
Each twinner takes over the awareness of the other twinner’s body. You’ll come upon that in just a few chapters, there is an excerpt from Morgan of Oris while he’s in possesion of Morgan Sloat’s body.
I don’t think both twinners are allowed to be on the same world at the sametime.
I’m a bit dense, I guess. I still don’t understand - even if it was MO, how in the world does he just “appear” by ripping into space/time. Seems like he’s restricted to travel on coaches elsewhere in the book.
To re-cap:
When Sloat “flips” into the Territories, he becomes MO, in the body of MO, wherever MO is. Both personalities co-exist in the Twinner’s body, if one exists. So how does MO just appear in the pasture and the training camp? It can’t be because Sloat flipped into the Territories directly - he can’t, as he has a Twinner and would arrive “in” the Twinner, where ever the Twinner is. Or am I still missing something?
But the thing is, Jack at one point did have a Twinner, but Morgan of Oris killed him the same night Morgan Sloat tried to kill Jack.
Morgan Sloat is not the one who ripped space, it was Morgan of Oris. I don’t have the book around here, I’m not sure where I put it, but my guess is that MO flipped into MS’s body and then they both flipped to where Jack was, because MS saw Jack before Jack flipped over.
Exactly pep. Morgan Sloat was close to Jack when when he flipped. So MS flipped following Jack, but MO tore through space time to take up the position where MS would have appeared had he not had a twinner. Neidhart You’re right. But it seems most of the important peole do have twinners. Like the Queen/Jacks mother, Parker/Speedy.
Bev Vincent is a treasure house full of Stephen King information and up to the minute news, and he writes a regular column in Cemetery Dance magazine.
Bev says we don’t need to re-read The Talisman before reading Black House – he says it doesn’t rely very heavily on the first book, and it’s not a direct continuation of that story.
Bev suggests maybe re-reading Insomnia (Crimson King), Hearts in Atlantis (Ted and the breakers) and Little Sisters of Eluria (from the Legends anthology).
The Crimson King appears in Insomnia? Great now I need to go back and read that one. I remembered Ted and the breakers, but there’s something cofusing about that connection. (wont bring it up to do to the spoilage factor)
IIRC, The Crimson King is actually very important to Insomnia. Of course I haven’t read it in uh…2 years? Man the time flies.
I agree that you don’t have to re-read The Talisman, but I’m really happy I did, because it had been at least 6 years and I wanted to become reacquainted with Jack. All of the key points from The Talisman are explained as backstory, but I don’t think you can really appreciate the Adult Jack Sawyer unless you knew the 11-year old Jack Sawyer.
Bah. Talisman is, and always will be, one of my all-time fave books. Black House, though, is just a side-story for the Gunslinger series- and I just can’t stand those stories. Black House may have been technically a sequel to Talisman, but it never will be in my heart.
damn it, pepperland girl, mark your post as a SPOILER,
I ´m just in the beginning of “Black House” and don´t wanna hear about any Speedy Parker=Gunslinger equations…
Seriously, you should expect spoilers in book threads. Whether or not the OP indicates a possible spoiler, 90% of the time you’ll find one. And what spoils a book for you might not spoil a book for me, and vice versa.
When you figure something out as you’re reading – like who is or isn’t a gunslinger – do you stop reading? Is the book spoiled?
If I care about spoilers, I don’t open a book thread until I’m finished with the book. It’s just a good rule of thumb. Saves a lot of grief.
Sorry to resurrect this dead thread. I loved the Talisman, though I was sad that … well, that that one super-cool character was killed. I just read it recently for the first time (and Eyes of the Dragon and the Gunslinger both last year for the first time)…I’m really behind the times.
I’m in the middle of Black House right now, and I’m deeply disturbed and angry.
[spoiler]I’m watching as Henry listens to the Fisherman tapes, with Burnside standing right outside his booth. The storytelling is masterful, because I’m sweating, heart racing, etc., and clenching my fists subconsciously as I read.
The disturbing thing for me was what happened to the Thunder Five. I’m pissed that Sonny and Kaiser Bill ran (though I can understand why they were scared). I’m angry that it looks like Mouse is going to die, and wondering why Jack isn’t taking him to the Territories. Maybe Parkus can help or something. Grrrr…[/spoiler]
Anyway, it was really hard for me to get into it. I had to start it like 10 times, each time I’d read about a page or two, then give up because of the annoying narrative (we now fly through the keyhole and see mr. blah blahberson making some eggs…). I don’t like it when books talk to me so blatantly, just like when movie characters are aware of the camera.
But once I got into the story and realized what was happening, I’m hooked. Back to find out what happens to … those two guys… :mad:
Joe_Cool, I’d have to totally agree with what’s in your spoiler box. Even more so because I really thought Henry was a cool cat.
I’ve read lots of Stephen King, but somehow missed the Dark Tower series and the Talisman. So I wasn’t aware this was a “sequel”. I’d also heard about the references to the Breakers in Hearts in Atlantis. It was totally lost on me because I hadn’t read the books he alluded to.
I tell you, once you start with King, you’ve got to read them all. He weaves so much together!
I’m somewhat disappointed in Black House. I felt they didn’t spend enough time in the Territories, whereas in Talisman half the point was in marvelling about how grand everything was. I would have liked to see Jack’s adult perspective on the marvelous things there.
Henry may be the bee’s knees, but if I had to read “the sheik, the Shake, the shook” one more time I would have gone crazy. That phrase drove me nuts.
cranky reader warning:
I dunno, I’d never equated the Territories with the Dark Tower world - since the Territories are supposed to be fairly analagous to ours and Roland’s is completely different in geography. I’d like to think that they’re all just parallel worlds on different levels of the Tower, but King’s come close to saying that the Territories and Roland’s are one and the same.
BTW, isn’t Jack seen as a side character in Tommyknockers or somesuch?
I’m waiting for King to tie all his stories in a grand, 3000-page finale, then keel over from brain implosion.
