Question on the ending of "Cyteen" by Cherryh

Am I completely wrong, or was the ending of that book way too abrupt, yanked in out of the blue, and left a whole bunch of important plot threads totally dangling??
I mean, sure, Cherryh was way more interested in the questions of identity and social/psychological engineering that the surface plot, but come on! She has Ari I ‘murdered’ around page 100, uses the situations and tensions that arise from that to drive the plot for another 600+ pages…and then she never bothers to make clear who the perpetrator was???

(I put the quotes around ‘murdered’ because I think it was actually a suicide.)

It’s been awhile, but…yes, I do remember it seeming a bit abrupt.

That said I never really thought that the killer’s identity was really important at all. For what its worth I thought the implication was that Jordan ( had to look up his name :smiley: ) somehow managed to pull it off.

I haven’t read it since high school, but I do remember it being frustrating. I should give it a reread - I think her fantasy is a steaming pile of crap, but her science fiction is some of the best around.

Well, I’m relieved I didn’t just somehow ‘miss’ the solution…

The thing is, I picked up this book with high hopes. I’ve loved other books by Cherryh, this one was a Hugo winner, should be good.

But.

It starts with the damned huge info dump ‘history’ of the entire universe any book has ever stuffed in my face. Page after page after page of names and dates and who is allied with whom and why it changed. All of which I dutifully plowed through, thinking I’d need to know it. Nope. Should have skipped the lot.

And, well, maybe I’m just not in the target audience. I found all the political cut’n’thrust boring. I couldn’t have cared less if Alliance or Union or the Centrists or, hell, the Paxers ended up in control. Mainly I kept reading for the character interactions: Would Justin ever stop being such a delicate flower mope? Would Grant get to be a Citizen? How would the relationship between Ari and Justin work out? Who actually killed Ari the First? Things like that.

And, over 700 pages later, the book just tosses in a couple of action scenes, The End, without bringing to a satisfying conclusion ANY of the aspects I was interested in. :frowning:

If you haven’t read the Foreigner books, the political and personal are more balanced in those, IMHO. Although you do have to keep in mind who’s ethnically Ragi and who assassinated whom and who has estates near Malguri, etc, etc.

I found both of Cherryh’s Hugo winners to be tough but rewarding reading. I would agree that the ending is a bit abrupt since it fires of a quick “Ha ha! You were wrong on who the villain was!” and then moves into a coup. I enjoyed working my way through the web of deception that ties the whole book up.

I didn’t think that Ari’s death was that mysterious; there were really only two options given the situation and the public one was the more likely even if people were spreading other rumors.

I will say that Downbelow Station is a lot more straightforward and has quite a bit more action than Cyteen if you like her style but not the content. There’s still a whole lot of politics but it doesn’t take until page three hundred to get moving like Cyteen did.

If I’m remembering it properly, what the info dump did was situate the novel among a bunch of her previous novels that had been set in the same ‘space’, without having been explicitly tied together. What the dump did was tie together the earlier novels, which would have been satisfying if you remembered the characters in them.

It would also have let you begin the novel in a state of tension, because you would have already seen the results of the politics - you would have seen other characters fighting, suffering, and dying as a result of the politics. Now you would go behind the scenes. The political fighting means more if you know that the decisions made by these people are going to affect all of those people still out there living in the time just after their own novels.

I’d agree that she definitely does seem to write differently tween the two genres - I’ve read quite a few mediocre Cherryh fantasty efforts. I’m much more of a fasntasy reader than SF, though, so have probably missed out on her best work. The SF I’ve picked up by her is really sound - I’d like to read the book in the OP.

She’s especially good at dramatic tension, she’d make a fantastic playwright if there were such a genre as spaceship theatre. I liked her Russian folktale fantasy stuff OK - she brought a lot of her kitchensink SF drama to it. Her Angel and the Sword book was decent as well. Never been knocked out by one of her fantasy books - the Morgaine trilogy was a bit pedestrian just thinking of other stuff I’ve picked up by her.

How do you pronounce her name BTW? I go for a sherear type sound mesel.

I’ll go a step farther and say that in that sense Downbelow Station might be required reading before picking up Cyteen. Strictly speaking they aren’t part of a series, but DS takes place at about the same time and supplies some necessary background. Hell, even just reading the prologue of DS would probably clear things up a little for you, Straving.

It’s a fact that Cherryh loves plotting intrigue, backroom political maneouverings ( either grand and interstellar or petty and personal ) and “sociological science fiction.” It’s pretty much her stock in trade. If you find that sort of thing tedious, she may not be for you ( personally I’m a fan, though she can get a little tedious sometimes in terms of repeating storylines and themes ).

That said Cyteen may have less action than anything else she’s ever written. Despite what I just said, Cherryh likes her space opera and a few of her books have a fairly ( or comparatively ) frenetic, action-packed pace - I’m thinking of the Chanur series in particular. You might want to give the first one of those a try and see if it spins your beeny.

And while I generally agree with Zsofia that her fantasy is not too my taste, I make an exception for the Gate/Morgaine books. Actually I don’t really classify those as fantasy, but a lot of folks do - it’s more ‘Swords and Science’ meets ‘Planetary Romance’.

Cherry. It’s how it was originally spelled - the “h” is essentially an affectation ( I believe there was a reason for the change, but I forget what it was ).

Her brother is also a writer and she wanted to differentiate herself.

She’s at her best, IMHO, when she’s writing about “going native” - the Chanur books and then the more mature Foreigner series, which is almost a little bit like a “do-over” even though they’re not First Contact novels, and the Faded Sun ones, and I know there’s others that I’m not thinking about. She’s obviously put a lot of thought into the idea - I think it’s her best theme.

ETA - even her novels that don’t have alien species in them to go native with tend to be about people who are alone in their culture in some way, and about alienation (um, no pun intended.) She and I have a bargain - I’ll try to remember why so-and-so had so-and-so assassinated six books ago, and she’ll keep trying to engage me intellectually and emotionally. We get along.

Alienation, yes - well put.

She just loves writing about culture clashes and alienation of all kinds. When I think just about every science fiction book she has ever written ( and I’ve read virtually all of them, I think ) is ultimately is about some sort of culture clash and features some sort of individual alienation.

I actually think the single best book she ever attempted on human/alien interfaces is still 40,000 in Gehenna. It’s not her best written book, by any means. But I think it is her best realization of a truly alien species that is intelligent, but differently intelligent. By contrast supposedly weird species like the Knnn come off a bit gimmicky.

I disagree with the OP. Cyteen is the first book I read by Cherryh, I’ve read several other of her SF books (about 5 or 6 of them), and Cyteen is still my favourite. I too was a little bothered about the lack of resolution of Ari’s murder, but then, in real life, doesn’t that happen a lot? We never truly know what happened. For what it’s worth, my opinion was that it was just a lab accident, as one of the characters in the book says.

She’s played around a lot with getting aliens right and appropriately alien - the Chanur books were clearly an early effort where the sympathetic races were too human, the unsympathetic ones too evil, and the weird ones too nonsensical. Compare it to the atevi in the Foreigner books, where part of the point is that you the reader “like” Banichi and Jago although you’re not “allowed” to - the book puts you very much in the place of the protagonist standing uncomfortably between two worlds. She’s put a lot of practice in. :slight_smile:

I liked the Faded Sun books also, because while the level of “alienness” wasn’t necessarily dialed in correctly (the aliens were sort of a cross between Dune and The Dark Crystal) the human’s relationships with them were very compelling. Somebody in there tells the protagonist that humans are the only species who break off a member of their culture and let them go native and become something else - obviously I don’t know if that’s a special thing we do and other species don’t, but within the framework of most of her work it makes sense. We’re not the smartest, we’re not the strongest, we’re the generalist monkeys.

One interesting thing about the Foreigner books is how much of the Atevi culture is a slightly warped version of Japanese culture. Back in the mid-1500s to the early 1600s, the Japanese kept the Portugese and Dutch traders separate from the mainland on an island in Nagasaki after the disrupting influence of foreign ideas, trade, and religion led to internal conflict between factions. Later problems from even that attenuated contact led Japanese leaders to break off all relations with the outside, which is what Bren’s position as an ambassador is supposed to prevent from happening with the Atevi.

The humans and Europeans were similarly surprised at how quickly the ideas and technology given to the Atevi and Japanese respectively were adapted, changed, and in some cases improved by a group with no previous exposure to them. Only a few years after firearms were introduced, the Japanese had figured out a superior matchlock mechanism to the original Portuguese one. Industrial progress in Japan was frighteningly fast after being re-opened to foreign trade in the 1800s.

The Atevi and Japanese languages are opaque to outsiders, complicated and difficult to learn perfectly, and require convolutions that almost require you to be born into the society to get right. With the Atevi it’s the linguistic changes to reflect number, placement, speakers present, etc. With old Japanese, and to some extent with modern Japanese, truly polite language involves a different vocabulary, different grammar and verb formations, and must be adjusted to reflect the relative status of the individuals speaking, as well as taking into account the social situation and group membership. Simplified modern Japanese 敬語 keigo and 尊敬語 sonkeigo in today’s far less stratified post-War society is complicated enough that even native speakers have to practice it and receive some instruction in it to use it properly, though arguably the instruction is necessary because the honorifics aren’t used as often as they used to be.

The Atevi man’chi are analogous to Japanese networks of loyalty and influence. Similar to the mentions of Atevi period dramas that even Bren finds difficult to follow, Japanese jidaigeki are enduringly popular, and abominably complicated. A thorough knowledge of history is recommended and loyal viewership is mandatory to make any sense out of them. Plot twists often hinge on some previously hidden loyalty coming into conflict with the character’s official duties or role.

There are tons of other parallels that you’d pick up if you know about Japanese history and society. Obvious differences are that the Atevi are larger and stronger than humans. The humans, while technologically superior, have nowhere else to go, and their only currency is their technological knowledge. Therefore they have to do a delicate balancing act between letting out enough information to remain useful while not giving away everything or providing things that would destabilize the current leader.

This is not to knock Cherryh’s world-building, but to show that even with obvious influences and parallels to real life Japan, she has done some interesting things with those ideas as a jumping-off point. She takes a similar set of conditions, tweaks them a bit, and then plays with the consequences of those changes, while at the same time introducing some elements original to her and narrating it all in a style that is unquestionably unique.

I also think that world-building in that way (starting with a certain Japanese flavor) is a service to the reader - it helps you fill in the details and think of the society as a “whole” society even though you only see small parts of it, because it does have a historical analogue somewhere back in your brain. If she didn’t intend that effect I’m sure she wouldn’t have used loaded cultural terms like “felicitous”, which bears a very Asian connotation.

It’s interesting to compare that first Chanur book ( Pride of Chanur, published in 1981 ) with the last ( Chanur’s Legacy, 1992 ). The aliens are much better developed in the latter, with the “evil” Kif having become the main backing of the Chanur power structure.

Like mentioned, she does reuse ideas and themes :). Her very early Hanan books from the mid-1970’s used that same Japanese trope. Her Foreigner books are much, much better ( a couple of them are subpar, but mostly it is a solid series ) - but it is a bit amusing to see her to replay that obvious fascination.

Yeah, I felt the middle books got a little meh - the first and third trilogies are the best.

I had no idea she kept writing Chanur books after I’d read them. Perhaps I’m overdue for a reread. To the bookmob… wait, I work in a library. :slight_smile:

Urgh, now I blame you. Our copies have the original cover, which I can’t find a picture of online but trust me, it’s humiliating to be seen with it. I’ll have to buy a copy of Penthouse and sneak this around inside it. It isn’t the Michael Whelan covers that originally made me pick the books up in the first place. It’s got a naked man and some very silly looking cat people cavorting around on the set of Logan’s Run.

Gee. That sounds a whole lot more interesting than endless council votes. :smiley: